If the Byzantine Empire survives, is an eventual Byzantine-Russian Union/Commonwealth possible?

Jul 2017
203
Srpska
#23
Yes--in reality. But Futurist had asked what would happen had the Byzantine Empire been as it was in 1025.
I presume, one, they did as much as they deemed right between 1000 and 1200. Defense and wars were conducted by the Emperor. He called the shots. He called up troops as needed from Serbia, Bulgaria, Epirus, etc., and very likely from Russia as well since they had family ties.
Two, Russian dynasty did not have a strategic interest to do more, to act over the Emperor. For example to go into full war to conquer the Seljuks and the Saracens.
 
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Jun 2017
133
maine
#24
In 1025 Constantine VIII assumed the throne. He was a weak ruler who was in conflict with his own military and was deposed after a short reign. I doubt that he was calling any shots and, during his time, the empire was sliding into disarray. Russian strategic interest most likely would have included looking hard at a common enemy. Especially if the two powers were in some kind of Commonwealth arrangement.
 
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Jul 2017
203
Srpska
#25
Commonwealth arrangement.
Okay, so the year is 1500, Byzantines survive, Seljuks are in Ancara, but the rest of Anadolia and Greece is under Byzantine rule, and they approach the Russians with a commonwealth proposal.

The first thing the Russian emperor will say: How will you help us defend Russia? In what way do we benefit from you? And if you cannot, Will you bend the knee and give us your kingdom?
 
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Jun 2017
133
maine
#26
Okay, so the year is 1500, Byzantines survive, Seljuks are in Ancara, but the rest of Anadolia and Greece is under Byzantine rule, and they approach the Russians with a commonwealth proposal.

The first thing the Russian emperor will say: How will you help us defend Russia? In what way do we benefit from you? And if you cannot, Will you bend the knee and give us your kingdom?
Jumping up to 1500, Ivan III was on the Russian throne. He was a strong ruler who was interested in trade--and diplomacy; I should think he'd be quite willing to "play hardball," even with an ally. His Byzantine empress was still alive. I guess what would happen would depend a great deal on identity and character of the Byzantine emperor as well as the status of the Byzantine state. If the situation that existed in 1453 had continued, I'd say that the Byzantines would be in a difficult spot. The situation in 1500 was quite different than that of 1025.
 
Mar 2014
1,877
Lithuania
#27
If the Byzantine Empire survives, is an eventual Byzantine-Russian Union/Commonwealth possible? I'm thinking of something similar to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, but for the Byzantine Empire and Russia. I mean, they did have the same religion, didn't they?

Any thoughts on this?
I think that speaking of early history it is important to state what do you mean by Russia. In times when Byzantine Empire still lived there were multiple Russian states. I think union with Moscow is very unlikely. This state grew strong too late for such a union. Byzantine union with Lithuania would be much more interesting project. Lithuanians accepted Christianity only in 1385 and what branch of Christianity will be taken was was questionable for quite a while. A lot of Lithuanian nobility were baptized as Orthodox for quite a long time. If by some kind of diplomatic means Lithuania would accept baptism from Patriarch of Constantinople further relationships could be very possible. Lithuanians had access to Black sea and were trying to expand in that direction. But Lithuanians would be interested only if baptism as Orthodox would cut support for crusaders in Western Europe. I am not sure what would happen if Lithuania would become Orthodox. Would Teutonic order still get heavy support from the West?
 
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Sep 2012
3,718
Bulgaria
#28
This needs to be clarified. We are talking about Rus here or at least about Principality of Kiev, which was the most important east Slavic state along with Novgorod. We need to 'erase' Mongol invasion and Kalka from this speculative scenario, because after that Kiev was ruined - under suzerainty of Vladimir initially, shorty after domain of Lithuanian Grand Duke. In similar fashion in the south we need to erase Seljuks and Manzikert or at least alter their conversion to Orthodox Christianity instead of Islam. Also we need to sink into the sea all fourth crusade ships with all men on board and urge Timur to completely destroy the early Ottoman state just in case. Too many variables.
 
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Jan 2015
24
greece
#29
I dont think so.If anything in an alternate universe where Byzantine empire hadnt fallen i think they'd actually be bitter rivals of the Rus/Russians just like the Ottomans turned out to be.
Bulgarians and Serbs were also sharing the same religion as Byzantines,that didnt mean much,They still fought lengthy wars against both of them.