If the Ottoman Empire survives, do various North African anti-colonial movements aim to rejoin the Ottoman Empire?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,197
SoCal
#1
If the Ottoman Empire would have survived (for instance, due to it not entering WWI at all), would various North African anti-colonial movements aim to rejoin the Ottoman Empire once the age of decolonization will arrive in this scenario? In real life, anti-colonial movements in colonies such as Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, and Libya aimed to acquire independence--but in real life the Ottoman Empire was already broken up several decades earlier (thus making an Ottoman reunion not an option for these countries). However, if the Ottoman Empire would have survived--and please keep in mind that the Ottoman Sultan was viewed as being the Caliph of Islam--might various anti-colonial movements in North Africa aim to rejoin the Ottoman Empire rather than to acquire independence?

Any thoughts on this?

Also, for what it's worth, a surviving Ottoman Empire would certainly have a lot of oil reserves that are eventually going to get discovered. Might this help motivate a lot of North Africans to seek an Ottoman reunion after the end of European colonial rule in North Africa?
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,419
Republika Srpska
#3
The importance of the title of Caliph is overstated. Abdul Hamid II was the first Ottoman Sultan to really ever use it and as we saw in World War I it was an empty title since the Ottoman Sultan called for a holy war against the Allies and many Muslims (most notably the Arabs) fought against the Ottomans.
 
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Kotromanic

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
4,894
Iowa USA
#4
Also, for what it's worth, a surviving Ottoman Empire would certainly have a lot of oil reserves that are eventually going to get discovered. Might this help motivate a lot of North Africans to seek an Ottoman reunion after the end of European colonial rule in North Africa?
@Futurist, those many dreadnoughts weren't laid down without having first discovered the petroleum! Nuclear submarines or carriers weren't designed until the reactor was a proven power plant with a proven supply of fuel and likewise for dreadnoughts.

Perhaps we can say that some Iraqi reserves were found much later, however, I'm fairly certain that the Germans and English were both aware that Kirkuk region was oil rich by '14.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,197
SoCal
#5
@Futurist, those many dreadnoughts weren't laid down without having first discovered the petroleum! Nuclear submarines or carriers weren't designed until the reactor was a proven power plant with a proven supply of fuel and likewise for dreadnoughts.
Yes, but what specifically is your point here, K?

Perhaps we can say that some Iraqi reserves were found much later, however, I'm fairly certain that the Germans and English were both aware that Kirkuk region was oil rich by '14.
So, the Ottomans could begin exploiting the Kirkuk oil reserves early on.

The importance of the title of Caliph is overstated. Abdul Hamid II was the first Ottoman Sultan to really ever use it and as we saw in World War I it was an empty title since the Ottoman Sultan called for a holy war against the Allies and many Muslims (most notably the Arabs) fought against the Ottomans.
So, you don't think that the Arabs and Berbers of North Africa are going to be particularly eager for a return to Ottoman rule even in a scenario without WWI?

Also, FWIW, the impression that I got is that most Ottoman Arabs were loyal to the Ottoman Empire until WWI.
 
Sep 2019
45
Canada
#6
Well, I mean, I couldn't see a reason why they wouldn't split from the Ottomans during the age of decolonization, I dont think there was a strong enough cohesion between the once vast empire and its states, the areas were prone to having rebellions and splitting off from one another. I dont think the rule of the Sultan would have had much of an impact.
I mean, if everyone else is doing it, why wouldn't they?
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,197
SoCal
#7
Well, I mean, I couldn't see a reason why they wouldn't split from the Ottomans during the age of decolonization, I dont think there was a strong enough cohesion between the once vast empire and its states, the areas were prone to having rebellions and splitting off from one another. I dont think the rule of the Sultan would have had much of an impact.
I mean, if everyone else is doing it, why wouldn't they?
I was talking about North African Muslims wanting to rejoin the Ottoman Empire here--not Levantine Muslims wanting to separate from the Ottoman Empire.
 
Apr 2017
1,555
U.S.A.
#8
North Africa was largely autonomous under the ottomans. Egypt rebelled several times against the Ottomans, almost overthrowing them and taking a huge chunk of the empire with them. Even if the Ottomans survived and managed to hold onto the newly found oil reserves, north Africa would have little interest in rejoining the empire. By the 20th century the concept of nationalism had spread to non-European countries, many arab states wanted their independence from both Europe and the ottomans. Many of the muslim regions only joined the ottomans to save them from other hostile powers.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,197
SoCal
#9
North Africa was largely autonomous under the ottomans. Egypt rebelled several times against the Ottomans, almost overthrowing them and taking a huge chunk of the empire with them. Even if the Ottomans survived and managed to hold onto the newly found oil reserves, north Africa would have little interest in rejoining the empire. By the 20th century the concept of nationalism had spread to non-European countries, many arab states wanted their independence from both Europe and the ottomans. Many of the muslim regions only joined the ottomans to save them from other hostile powers.
I thought that the joining of the Levant and North Africa to the Ottoman Empire was done involuntarily? Also, was the Levant autonomous under Ottoman rule as well?
 
Apr 2017
1,555
U.S.A.
#10
I thought that the joining of the Levant and North Africa to the Ottoman Empire was done involuntarily? Also, was the Levant autonomous under Ottoman rule as well?
They were conquered but after that the ottomans appointed rulers and largely left them to their own devices. The levant was more directly ruled due to the strategic importance against Persia.