If the USSR wasn't such a bad thing, then why did it collapse?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,239
SoCal
Historically speaking, Communist economy (close to total state controll of economy) is not Marx's invention, but it worked (in a more primitive way) on the territories of ancient era middle and near Eastern monarchies.
Monarchies such as Ancient Egypt, the Kingdom of Israel, and the Persian Empire?
 
Oct 2019
72
Budapest
Monarchies such as Ancient Egypt, the Kingdom of Israel, and the Persian Empire?

The problem of the critics, that they interpreted a purelly economical concept like AMP in a fals way. They combined it with political and societal ideologies (like class systems) whih is not necessary if we concentrate only on the economic interpretation instead of societal interpretations.

YES, the Soviet system was a modern version of ancient AMP. But the concept was true in societal levels too: just the high priests (communist theorists) and aristocracy (high rank local or nation-wide party leadership) controlled the economy, according to the ideology of GODS (Marx and Engels). They had even saints, the heroes of the strugle of the worker class, who were "persecuted" by evil capitalists like early Christians in the evil Roman Empire.

But economically it is undisputable, that Soviet economy was an AMP.
 
Last edited:

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
5,172
Sydney
Ancient Mesopotamia was ruled by the priests who ran the place from their temples as a totally managed estate
the Jesuit missions were not democracy , they were benign autocracy under their total economic management

there probably is some more examples
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gvelion
Apr 2014
146
New York, U.S.
People work harder because they believe that their hard work will lead to a better life. In other words, self interest.
But in communism – A command economy – there is no incentive to work harder. Everyone is to be can considered equal with no perks for above average performance.
Therefore, why work harder. This was the basic fault of communism.
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
5,172
Sydney
" People work harder because they believe that their hard work will lead to a better life. In other words, self interest. "

the communist idea prosper in places where people work bloody hard just to stay alive
telling them that they are free sound like a bad joke
 

Frank81

Ad Honorem
Feb 2010
5,118
Canary Islands-Spain

The problem of the critics, that they interpreted a purelly economical concept like AMP in a fals way. They combined it with political and societal ideologies (like class systems) whih is not necessary if we concentrate only on the economic interpretation instead of societal interpretations.

YES, the Soviet system was a modern version of ancient AMP. But the concept was true in societal levels too: just the high priests (communist theorists) and aristocracy (high rank local or nation-wide party leadership) controlled the economy, according to the ideology of GODS (Marx and Engels). They had even saints, the heroes of the strugle of the worker class, who were "persecuted" by evil capitalists like early Christians in the evil Roman Empire.

But economically it is undisputable, that Soviet economy was an AMP.
This is the reason Stalin baned the AMP off the canonical Marxist modes of production. Similarities with the Soviet system were too many
 
Aug 2018
337
America
It's pretty dumb to think that longevity is synonymous with good or evidence of being good. The absolute monarchical Ancien Regime of France lasted over a century since Louis XIV, and we even forms of the French monarchy lasting until the Franco-Prussian War. The Roman Empire with its absolute monarchy, slavery, crucifixions, burnings at the stake, punitive campaigns and bloody civil wars lasted as a unified empire until 476, and as such until 1204 at the very least. The Spanish Empire which committed extreme genocide against Tainos, Aztecs, Mayans, Incas and other indigenous peoples of Latin America lasted for about three centuries.

Also, since people here are Nazi apologists who make false equivalences between intentional Nazi genocides and unintentional Communist famines, does the fact that the USSR lasted far longer than Nazi Germany (74 years vs 12) make the USSR better than the latter? I don't think neither the OP nor the false equivalence proponents will agree to this.
 

Frank81

Ad Honorem
Feb 2010
5,118
Canary Islands-Spain
It's pretty dumb to think that longevity is synonymous with good or evidence of being good. The absolute monarchical Ancien Regime of France lasted over a century since Louis XIV, and we even forms of the French monarchy lasting until the Franco-Prussian War. The Roman Empire with its absolute monarchy, slavery, crucifixions, burnings at the stake, punitive campaigns and bloody civil wars lasted as a unified empire until 476, and as such until 1204 at the very least. The Spanish Empire which committed extreme genocide against Tainos, Aztecs, Mayans, Incas and other indigenous peoples of Latin America lasted for about three centuries.

Also, since people here are Nazi apologists who make false equivalences between intentional Nazi genocides and unintentional Communist famines, does the fact that the USSR lasted far longer than Nazi Germany (74 years vs 12) make the USSR better than the latter? I don't think neither the OP nor the false equivalence proponents will agree to this.

You can't understand the success of the Spanish empire in America on the base of genocide, which if happened took place among some specific groups. The Spanish rule on the continent was based on an alliance of the Europeans with the native american aristocratic elites
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tulun

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
5,172
Sydney
back to thread
the high point of the USSR was probably around the 12th of April 1961
with putting the first man in space after having put the first satellite in orbit
the USSR prestige was standing high
they were a beacon for all the liberation movements across three continents
while the US and Europe staunchly supported various reactionaries
from Franco Spain to Rhodesia
it's military was equal to any other

the iron times of Stalin were ( slowly ) receding in the past
the Communist block extended over a third of the world and a third of its population
the future seems bright , the standard of living was rising
and the intellectual life was flowering

Then things slowly came to an torpor , the Brezhnev years were less a nightmare than a bad fitful sleep
one could think that the system had reached its end point
as proof , it went with hardly a whisper
the only fatality is reported to be an overexcited protester who fell from a Moscow bridge overpass
 
Sep 2019
310
Slovenia
They were rather a trap than a beacon for liberation movements. The plan of KGB was to put mostly by force more and more pro-communist leaders in third world countries. From Afganistan, to Bangladesh, to Ethiopia etc. we can see this, but in the last case it finaly at least ended with African Nuremberg trials. And we saw in eastern Europe how USSR treated liberation movement in 1968 in Czechoslovakia under Brezhnev.

Georgi Markov, Sultan Ibraimov, Daud Khan, Hafizullah Amin etc. were all killed by KGB.

In China on the other hand the red terror just reached the top in 60's.