If the USSR wasn't such a bad thing, then why did it collapse?

Aug 2018
337
America
You can't understand the success of the Spanish empire in America on the base of genocide, which if happened took place among some specific groups. The Spanish rule on the continent was based on an alliance of the Europeans with the native american aristocratic elites
You miss the point which is that the Spanish Empire committed genocide yet it lasted for about three centuries, which shows how you can be a god awful evil regime and yet have longevity. Also, "if happened"? It did happen. Only apologists of colonial genocide (a commonality in this forum apparently) can say it didn't, and that should in all honesty be put on the same level as Holocaust denial.
 
Sep 2016
1,321
Georgia
Only apologists of colonial genocide (a commonality in this forum apparently) can say it didn't, and that should in all honesty be put on the same level as Holocaust denial.
Yeah, we are all ,, evil '' Capitalists here. Continue to live in your communist bubble.
 
Sep 2016
1,321
Georgia
It's pretty dumb to think that longevity is synonymous with good or evidence of being good. The absolute monarchical Ancien Regime of France lasted over a century since Louis XIV, and we even forms of the French monarchy lasting until the Franco-Prussian War.
Wtf are you talking about ? There are different forms of monarchies with various limitations on monarch's power. Many modern European countries are still monarchies and much better place to live than USSR. Ancient Regime also never killed as many people as Soviet regime in order to secure it's power. How many people were executed during Louis XIV reign ? You obviously don't know the answer.

Are you from post-soviet country ? Because it seems that you are not.
 
Oct 2014
178
California, USA
That`s right. The claim of USSR apologists, how things were better then is akin to "the slaves were better off before the emancipation".
I don't know if I would go that far. Some people would trade freedom of speech for some economic gain. And having done research on slavery, in most cases it was something not many people would trade for anything except survival (at least not for most slaves in the US). But still, being better than slavery is a pretty low bar, and not anywhere close to being "good."
 
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Jan 2019
147
Finland
Wtf are you talking about ? There are different forms of monarchies with various limitations on monarch's power. Many modern European countries are still monarchies and much better place to live than USSR. Ancient Regime also never killed as many people as Soviet regime in order to secure it's power. How many people were executed during Louis XIV reign ? You obviously don't know the answer.

Are you from post-soviet country ? Because it seems that you are not.
It could be a similar point that occured to me about the title, that it's possible that if the USSR had been worse than it was it could have lasted longer, like North Korea for example.
 
Sep 2014
957
Texas
I was a member of the Russian Orthodox Church old calendar in America, and 1991 was being preached as 1000 years since Russia became Christian, the date 991 being the starting point.

In 1990 East Germany collapsed .. I remember watching the news of an East German girl standing in a ditch of water with a rifle pointed at her. Reagan came along and said Mr. Gorbachev tear down this wall. That was the beginning of the end.
 
Aug 2018
337
America
Wtf are you talking about ? There are different forms of monarchies with various limitations on monarch's power. Many modern European countries are still monarchies and much better place to live than USSR. Ancient Regime also never killed as many people as Soviet regime in order to secure it's power. How many people were executed during Louis XIV reign ? You obviously don't know the answer.

Are you from post-soviet country ? Because it seems that you are not.
But since I wasn't talking about those monarchies you mention but explicitly the Ancien Regime and its descendants only, your words have no value. As for your second argument, the point is that a regime has to be bad, not how bad, the latter of which constitutes goal post moving. Unless you're really an apologist of Louis XIV and his successors like Napoleon. It really doesn't matter if the absolutist French monarchy left by Louis XIV possibly killed about 5 to potentially around 10 million people in its wars with other European powers and in its colonial conquests in around 200 years or so while the USSR killed 20 to 40 million people depending on who you ask, the point is that said regime is easily evil and "bad" and yet it lasted centuries.

And no, I'm not from a post-Soviet country, I'm from a capitalist country that suffered a fascist genocide supported by the US, the EU and Israel (Guatemala).
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
5,172
Sydney
They were rather a trap than a beacon for liberation movements. The plan of KGB was to put mostly by force more and more pro-communist leaders in third world countries. From Afganistan, to Bangladesh, to Ethiopia etc. we can see this, but in the last case it finaly at least ended with African Nuremberg trials. And we saw in eastern Europe how USSR treated liberation movement in 1968 in Czechoslovakia under Brezhnev.

Georgi Markov, Sultan Ibraimov, Daud Khan, Hafizullah Amin etc. were all killed by KGB.

In China on the other hand the red terror just reached the top in 60's.
No kidding !!
have you anything intelligent to say to all the trade union members , random farmers or somewhat unlucky passer-by
who got arrested , tortured and executed in their ten of thousands for the mere suspicion that they stood against the concept of profit
as defined by the local landlord who painted them as "communists" for standing in the way of crushing exploitation

your world view is that unbridled repression is a positive good
as long as some local big man paint it's opponent with a cold war tar brush
 
Sep 2019
310
Slovenia
@sparky Communist imperialism, repression, terror, manipulation, etc was by far the biggest in last century. Also against farmers, also against workers... Even another totalitarian Nazi regime did not kill so many people, yet it is also true it existed for a shorter time. And what is also important here it is true that during the cold war free world had to support sometimes also oppresive regimes against much greater danger of communism. But people who were working with communists would end anyway in much bigger repression, because the communist strategy always was knife in the back of your ally.
 
Oct 2013
1,329
Monza, Italy
Even if we hypotize USSR in the '70s/ '80s wasn't such a bad thing (because everybody had a job ecc..ecc..) I suppose it wasn't as good as capitalism in the same years, at least by the point of view of the majority.