If there is no Holocaust, how do the Jewish communities of Eastern Europe look like right now?

Isleifson

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
4,167
Lorraine tudesque
It would be like in this book : No WW1, no holocaust and Europe with the Jewish scientifist is still dominating the world and flying to the moon.

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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
23,764
SoCal
I've seen it, but I can't add anything new other than what I already wrote in post #6. It would also depend on the post ww2 political climate but no matter what, overall their assimilation and intermarriage would continue and I would expect the country would have now 2-3% percent Jews, the rest (in 1930 they were 5,1% of the population in post Trianon Hungary) would either lose their Jewish identity all together or emmigrate to the West.
Would few of them emigrate to Israel--even among the provincial Jews in Greater Hungary?

Also, was intermarriage actually much of a thing among provincial Jews (as opposed to Budapest Jews) in Greater Hungary?

I don't know what would be the trends in the neighboring countries, the Jews were mostly Hungarophones in those areas too, i don't know how would they manage their existance as a minority's minority, would they assimilate further into the Hungarian minority or maybe a dissimilation trend would occure there, adopting Jewish ethnic identity (that would increase sympathy toward Zionism too) or switching allegiance to the majority ethnic group? I don't know.
To be honest, I suspect that the Jews are more likely to embrace their own identity in such a scenario. I mean, just how much benefit would there actually be for them in becoming Hungarians in countries where Hungarians are a minority? Magyarization certainly had appeal in a Magyar-majority country, but probably much less in a country where Magyars are a minority and aren't actually in positions of power.
 

Tulun

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
3,943
Western Eurasia
Would few of them emigrate to Israel--even among the provincial Jews in Greater Hungary?
I don't know how many of them would go to Israel, I think despite Herzl himself was also born in Hungary, Zionism as a movement was not too strong. As far as I know most of the current anti-Zionist orthodox Jews also actually originate from Hungary (Satmar, Neturei Karta). Don't ask me why, I have no idea :))

Also, was intermarriage actually much of a thing among provincial Jews (as opposed to Budapest Jews) in Greater Hungary?
Well Hungary was little more than Budapest vs rural countryside, there were other small cities too :)) I guess intermarriage was higher in cities and less and less likely in smaller places. There was also a divide between Jewish sects, members of Neolog Judaism - Wikipedia were more likely to assimilate (but then again they were also probably more urban)


To be honest, I suspect that the Jews are more likely to embrace their own identity in such a scenario. I mean, just how much benefit would there actually be for them in becoming Hungarians in countries where Hungarians are a minority? Magyarization certainly had appeal in a Magyar-majority country, but probably much less in a country where Magyars are a minority and aren't actually in positions of power.
Yes probably, at least in Romania and in the SU they were officially treated as a separate ethnic group, while in Hungary Jews were most of the time officially treated as a religion only (ofc there were exceptions: the 1920 numerus clausus act and the later Nazi inspired race laws) . I don't know what were the policies in Czechoslovakia, Yugo, were they treated as an ethnic group there?
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
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SoCal
I don't know how many of them would go to Israel, I think despite Herzl himself was also born in Hungary, Zionism as a movement was not too strong. As far as I know most of the current anti-Zionist orthodox Jews also actually originate from Hungary (Satmar, Neturei Karta). Don't ask me why, I have no idea :))
Interesting.

Well Hungary was little more than Budapest vs rural countryside, there were other small cities too :)) I guess intermarriage was higher in cities and less and less likely in smaller places. There was also a divide between Jewish sects, members of Neolog Judaism - Wikipedia were more likely to assimilate (but then again they were also probably more urban)
Yes, there were other cities in Hungary, but they were all much smaller than Budapest is to my knowledge. You're probably right about intermarriage as well as about the division between Jewish sects.

Yes probably, at least in Romania and in the SU they were officially treated as a separate ethnic group, while in Hungary Jews were most of the time officially treated as a religion only (ofc there were exceptions: the 1920 numerus clausus act and the later Nazi inspired race laws) . I don't know what were the policies in Czechoslovakia, Yugo, were they treated as an ethnic group there?
AFAIK, in Czechoslovakia Jews were often lumped into the German-speaking category (ironic, isn't it?) while I believe that they were their own separate group in Yugoslavia.