Imjin War

Mar 2012
4,279
#71
No, the part about Hideyoshi tearing up Ming proposal in rage and condemned Ming diplomat/refused to bow was fabrications of later period, while first hand accounts from both Ming and Korean envoys recorded that Hideyoshi gladly accepted the proposal. He later restart the war because Ming ONLY recognize him as King of Japan, but still ban him from sending tribute mission to China.
Do you know which posterior source this is? Was it a Japanese source? If Hideoyoshi accepted the title, I wonder if he was aware of its implications, and if he did, I wonder if it means he accepted the same status that Yoshimitsu did in relationship to the Yongle emperor.
 
Jul 2015
271
Japari Park
#72
Do you know which posterior source this is? Was it a Japanese source? If Hideoyoshi accepted the title, I wonder if he was aware of its implications, and if he did, I wonder if it means he accepted the same status that Yoshimitsu did in relationship to the Yongle emperor.
Annal of Joseon, quoting the report of Ming envoy Yang Fang Heng (杨方亨) that personally went to Japan to host the ceremony:
"倭將行長, 馳報秀吉, 擇於九月初二日, 奉迎冊命於大坂地方受封。 職等初一日, 持節前往, 是日卽抵大坂〔大阪〕。 次日領受欽賜圭印、官服, 旋卽佩執頂被, 望闕行五拜三叩頭禮, 承奉誥命。"
The bold/underscored part actually describes Hideyoshi doing the Kowtow ceremony in acceptance of the title.

Another one from Annal of Joseon, quoting the report of Korean ambassador Hwang Sin , that also went to Japan and partaking in/witnessing the ceremony.
翌日兩天使行封, 關白立於庭上, 五拜三扣頭, 敬受賜衣, 其臣四十餘人皆受欽賜有差云
Keitesu genso, Japanese Buddhist monk and (one of the) Japan's diplomat to Korea (he also followed Konishi Yukinaga arround during the Imjin War), also witnessed the ceremony. He recorded:
太阁喜气溢眉,领金印,着衣冠,唱万者三次
" Taikō(Hideyoshi) was overjoyed, accepted the golden seal, put on the robe, and chanted "Ten Thousand Years" three times."

So we have the first-hand accounts of Chinese, Korean and Japanese envoys personally witnessing Hideyoshi gladly accepted the title.


The hubbub about Hideyoshi refusing to accept the title come from much later, and less reliable sources: Nihon Gaishi (19th century), Nihon isshi (1688, if I am not mistaken), and Toyotomi Hideyoshi-fu (1642).
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,281
Republika Srpska
#73
I must say I don't really think Hideyoshi ever planned on conquering Europe. Start a war with European colonies in the Pacific and East Asia, sure, but Europe itself...I don't think so.
 
Mar 2012
4,279
#74
Annal of Joseon, quoting the report of Ming envoy Yang Fang Heng (杨方亨) that personally went to Japan to host the ceremony:

The bold/underscored part actually describes Hideyoshi doing the Kowtow ceremony in acceptance of the title.

Another one from Annal of Joseon, quoting the report of Korean ambassador Hwang Sin , that also went to Japan and partaking in/witnessing the ceremony.


Keitesu genso, Japanese Buddhist monk and (one of the) Japan's diplomat to Korea (he also followed Konishi Yukinaga arround during the Imjin War), also witnessed the ceremony. He recorded:

" Taikō(Hideyoshi) was overjoyed, accepted the golden seal, put on the robe, and chanted "Ten Thousand Years" three times."

So we have the first-hand accounts of Chinese, Korean and Japanese envoys personally witnessing Hideyoshi gladly accepted the title.


The hubbub about Hideyoshi refusing to accept the title come from much later, and less reliable sources: Nihon Gaishi (19th century), Nihon isshi (1688, if I am not mistaken), and Toyotomi Hideyoshi-fu (1642).
Interesting, it seems Hideyoshi actually accepted Ming suzerainty like Yoshimitsu did. The robe and hat could be misinterpreted, but I can't imagine the kowtow ceremony and chanting ten thousand years be misinterpreted. Hideyoshi, from a humble background, probably just didn't care (he was theoretically under the Japanese emperor anyways) and probably covered it up at home (much like how Altan Qan of the Mongols accepted a Ming title, but later Mongol sources like the Altan Tobchi went so far as to interpret this bestowal as "granting upwards" to the Qan; I doubt the Qan at the time of the bestowal was naive enough to not know what it meant; especially if there was a ceremony of kowtowing accompanying it).
 
Jul 2015
271
Japari Park
#75
Interesting, it seems Hideyoshi actually accepted Ming suzerainty like Yoshimitsu did. The robe and hat could be misinterpreted, but I can't imagine the kowtow ceremony and chanting ten thousand years be misinterpreted. Hideyoshi, from a humble background, probably just didn't care (he was theoretically under the Japanese emperor anyways) and probably covered it up at home (much like how Altan Qan of the Mongols accepted a Ming title, but later Mongol sources like the Altan Tobchi went so far as to interpret this bestowal as "granting upwards" to the Qan; I doubt the Qan at the time of the bestowal was naive enough to not know what it meant; especially if there was a ceremony of kowtowing accompanying it).
I should note that the word "職等" means "we", i.e. referring to Ming envoy Yang Fang Heng and another Ming envoy. The entire passage is basically their testimonial about "we went to Japan and seen this and done that etc etc".

I vaguely recall reading the passage about the envoys teaching Hideyoshi "what to do during the ceremony etc/rehearsal?" before the actual ceremony took place, but I am unable to track down the text now. If Hideyoshi didn't understand the significance of the ceremony/title before, he most likely did after the teaching.

There is apparently a Jesuit account about a big parade taking place during the ceremony (I can't read Japanese so can't verify it), so I doubt Hideyoshi was trying to cover up.
 

Similar History Discussions