Imperial Germany gives Home Rule to Posen Province

Jul 2012
756
Australia
#12
Depends when Home Rule is granted. Posen Poles did not accept German rule, and although they were not as rebellious as their brothers in the Congress Kingdom, they looked for opportunities to advance the position of Polish culture in Posen society. The blow to Polish-German cultural relations was the Kulturkampf which was a major stimulus in igniting modern Polish nationalism, and by this time there is nothing the Germans could do to improve the loyalty of the Poles.

Posen was the centre of the National Democrats who tended to be more anti-German than the Socialists/Nationalist who thought Russia was the bigger threat.

Any acts to give Poles some autonomy would raise expectations of full independence for a reunited Poland.
 

Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,992
US
#13
Any acts to give Poles some autonomy would raise expectations of full independence for a reunited Poland.
I agree. To give some autonomy to one region would have lit a fire in the other regions for something similar. We have to remember the situation in 19th century Poland was not occurring in a vacuum. There is evidence that uprisings in one partitioned land could and did have an impact on the others, especially the Russian and German controlled areas. That is why at one point Germany tried to expel a number of "Russian" Poles who had crossed into then Prussia following a failed coup in the Congress Kingdom.
 
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Kotromanic

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
4,718
Iowa USA
#14
I agree. To give some autonomy to one region would have lit a fire in the other regions for something similar. We have to remember the situation in 19th century Poland was not occurring in a vacuum. There is evidence that uprisings in one partitioned land could and did have an impact on the others, especially the Russian and German controlled areas. That is why at one point Germany tried to expel a number of "Russian" Poles who had crossed into then Prussia following a failed coup in the Congress Kingdom.
Please elaborate when you are able on the background information on uprisings that had a sort of "sympathetic vibration" between German Poland and Congress Poland. That would be interesting to read a bit more, thank you.
 
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Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,992
US
#17
Please elaborate when you are able on the background information on uprisings that had a sort of "sympathetic vibration" between German Poland and Congress Poland. That would be interesting to read a bit more, thank you.
I have read about this in various books, that I have since sold to a nice bookstore by the universities in the city, for not as much money as I thought they were worth I might add. But they were filling up an entire landing adjacent to the stairs that lead my bedroom and my wife wanted to put pictures and knick knacks there. And my memory isn't what is once was. I did find this article though which captures the essence of cooperation between the two partitioning powers. It only makes sense that would support each other. An uprising in one likely meant trouble for the other.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/1839273.pdf
Also, this is an interesting read on the subject of your OP.
Greater Poland uprising (1848) - Wikipedia
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,701
SoCal
#18
Hardly a large factor. There is a large conservative/junker/German bias in German courts. It looked very favorably on right wing terrorists/violence during the Wiemar people and it's the same judges. Interfering in the Courts, changing senoir civil service to get partizans in, well opposition is going to grow.

Changing the attitude one one person at the top does role out chnages through society easily. Yeah the Kaiser can have quite liberal attiudes /pro polish attitudes. But civil servants, judges, and people in positions of power across Germany have not changed. They are goingto kick back against changes they do not like.
So, how does the German Kaiser fight against this? By gradually putting in more compliant and obedient people in office into his Cabinet and elsewhere?

I honestly cannot see any difference between those two images. They look exactly the same , well if squint and look very carefully, I can see differences with the mouth. My distance vision excellent. Up close not so good. And I'm color blind. The red text used by some people sometime very very hard to read.

I don't understand these things. Why do people use them?
The right eye is winking in one of them. Try to enlarge the web page. For instance, by using Control +.

Well Germans are not going to learn Polish readily (it's just a thing across these multi ethnic society those who perceive themselves further up the hierarchy just don't learn the language "beneath'" them, were underclasss do) and they will be a large number of bi-lingual poles readily available. These sort of changes have to really focred. A lukewarm directive not followed up will be just nod and waved, at the local level, yes we're "bi langual" . It's something there well be lot of kick back and non-compliance. if the German bureaucrats and Judges are in the positions of power and review, why would they actively make sure this change happened. tehre going to be a conservative counter reaction that will not be exactly willing to carry these changes out. Reform just run a from a isolated person at teh top of the hiercahacy, opposed by all those down the chain. I think history tends to show that those with privileges faced with these sort of changes tend to bitch, moan, and unite against them much more than adapting to the new regime.
Is there any way that the German Kaiser can work with the German Reichstag (including by giving them much more power) so that they could actually enforce these policies?

And if the Poles are really automous they very likely to just sack all the Germans. insist on Polish.
Why fire the few Germans who are actually bilingual, though?

And when it invades Russian or Austrian Poland what happens? Provoking an incident would be the dream on many poles.
Germany could be prepared for a World War if it will have Britain on its side.

The Conservative Germans who run the Empire are not going to like arming poles regardless of how they behave.
Out of curiosity--was Alsace-Lorraine armed when it became its own state within Germany in 1911?
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,701
SoCal
#19
Depends when Home Rule is granted. Posen Poles did not accept German rule, and although they were not as rebellious as their brothers in the Congress Kingdom, they looked for opportunities to advance the position of Polish culture in Posen society. The blow to Polish-German cultural relations was the Kulturkampf which was a major stimulus in igniting modern Polish nationalism, and by this time there is nothing the Germans could do to improve the loyalty of the Poles.
That really sucks considering that the Kulturkampf already occurred by the time that Kaiser Bill took office.

Posen was the centre of the National Democrats who tended to be more anti-German than the Socialists/Nationalist who thought Russia was the bigger threat.
Where were the socialists and nationalists based?

Any acts to give Poles some autonomy would raise expectations of full independence for a reunited Poland.
Are Posen Poles going to try sparking an incident in order to spark a World War?