Increasing trashiness of the poor and working class?

Sindane

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
4,692
Europe
Yeah but the problem wasn't the buildings---it was the people. Still is.

By 1980, about 45 percent of British people lived in public housing, known here as 'council housing'. This housing replaced the slums, and gave many families hot running water and indoor toilets for the first time. Many of the British posters on here will have lived in them and some still do.

Some of the later council housing tower blocks, 1970s, were built on the cheap and many were demolished recently, in Birmingham for example, but most of the earlier ones were well built. The Grenfell tower block was originally well built but then idiots decided to clad it with flammable panels.
I was brought up on 'council estates' and also once lived in a 'council' tower block (built for the council in 1966 by Whimpey) and there was nothing wrong with it, or with 'the people'.
 

Sindane

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
4,692
Europe
So if I was I was just talking about high rise and not high rise public housing why did I write 'urban high rise "Projects" public housing?" The most expensive condos in the Upper West Side of NYC are high rise. Do you think I'm talking about them? No, I'm talking about these monstrosities.
'Monstrosities'?
What's wrong with it? Is that brick infill? It looks good
 

royal744

Ad Honoris
Jul 2013
10,756
San Antonio, Tx
This is an extrmely light weight article. Jane Jacobs was NOT against suburbs, she was against dominitary suburbans, monoculture of commuters. She was also against High Rise.

You got some social scientists types celebrating High Rise? High Rise seems to come form the confluence of Architects , Developers (making money) and Government (saving money)
Well, “White Flight” to the suburbs definitely occurred, but it has morphed in the last three or so decades to be nearly unrecognizable from the initial impulse that began the trend. Since I have not visited enough cities to accurately be able to comment, I can say that one of the prime examples of white flight is the city of Detroit which has lost a rather large proportion of its inner city dwellers.. Interestingly my wife lived in the area in the 70s ) many of those who could move, did move, but they did not leave the state; they just moved to the “burbs”.

At the same time, I noticed on a visit to the area recently, that the center of Detroit has been undergoing a bit of a renaissance with many of the abandoned buildings having been reclaimed by businesses that have moved back into the center city. No doubt, the abandoned buildings that have been reclaimed were acquired at bargain basement prices, bu that is better than just being abandoned.

In my city of normal residence - San Antonio - the city center is booming with lots and lots of apartments, condominiums and townhouses nearing completion in the center city. Young people have flocked back into the urban core and created an urban renaissance that is little short of astonishing. When one experience the traffic congestion in the suburbs, it isn’t surprising why folks are fleeing the burbs and moving back into the center.

I think Jane Jacobs was right but that her perspective was of course limited to urbanization patterns that may have applied to Boston, Philadelphia and New York, but not very applicable to cities further to west and new cities in the south and southwest.
 
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Nemowork

Ad Honorem
Jan 2011
8,483
South of the barcodes
By 1980, about 45 percent of British people lived in public housing, known here as 'council housing'. This housing replaced the slums, and gave many families hot running water and indoor toilets for the first time. Many of the British posters on here will have lived in them and some still do.

Some of the later council housing tower blocks, 1970s, were built on the cheap and many were demolished recently, in Birmingham for example, but most of the earlier ones were well built. The Grenfell tower block was originally well built but then idiots decided to clad it with flammable panels.
I was brought up on 'council estates' and also once lived in a 'council' tower block (built for the council in 1966 by Whimpey) and there was nothing wrong with it, or with 'the people'.
Part of the problem is thqat the culture changed. If you were poor working class then council housing was something you aspired to get into. You got it, you kept it in good repair and you were expected to be on exemplary behaviour not only to your neighbours but to the council who ran it on a very tight reign.
It was a privilege living in them and you treated it like that!

Two problems occurred, the first is the 1968 homeless persons act which meant the councils had to house everyone, regardless. That made it difficult to throw anyone out of a council house and make them homeless and anyone feckles and useless could still get council housing where they would have previously been stuck in a rat trap private lodging.
Then the factories that gave the working man his wage and purpose started to fall apart so council housing that had once held ambitious working people started to house the unemployed.
Neither group did much for local communities and council housing started to be seen as a dumping ground while the ambitious working people who would once have fought to get into council housing were now fighting to get out of it.

You can see it in the building quality, Victorian and red brick council houses tend to be solidly built to last, councils had pride in showing off their skills. 1970s building is poor houses for poor people.
 

Sindane

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
4,692
Europe
Part of the problem is thqat the culture changed. If you were poor working class then council housing was something you aspired to get into. You got it, you kept it in good repair and you were expected to be on exemplary behaviour not only to your neighbours but to the council who ran it on a very tight reign.
It was a privilege living in them and you treated it like that!...

There was no choice. Slums were demolished and people had to live somewhere. It wasn't 'something you aspired to...' It was something families were placed in. It wasn't a privilege, it was a hard earned right. That's why the council ran it on a 'very tight reign'. What came later was down to mass de-industrialisation and unemployment