India - An Unnatural Nation

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,981
India
I mean the similarities do some quite large. Both states grew out of the British and Mughal Empires. This can be seen in law (the legal system and organisation of the state), language (the use of English and Hindustani), territory. Both are at roughly similar levels of development, are similarly tied up with the great powers in terms of aid, and have similar problems in terms of corruption etc. Both states very much depend on one another in order to shore up domestic politics (your 'foil' concept).

The differences really don't seem very large. Even in terms of religion, the dominant strain of Hinduism one sees nowadays is very similar to the Abrahamic mindset: Strict scriptural adherence, insanity over perceived blasphemy etc. This is all very Mughal and it's a shame we encouraged tbh.

"disparity has only increased as their relationship continues to sour."

...hmm...no. Not to my mind. Even there, it seems like a mutually dependent relationship. India does what it does better than Pakistan does what it's trying to do. So far at least, and for whatever reason. Pakistan seems closer to resembling an army with a state than the reverse, whereas in India one does see the germination of actual democracy. But who knows what will happen 50 years from now?
That's a generalized comment actually, the reason India and Pakistan are so different today lies in the history. The Muslim League comprised of people who were mainly landlords and old Mughal nobles despite having a Western looking Jinnah while those in the Congress were mainly Western educated Indians, so the democratic state based on Westminster model was a grand failure in Pakistan and because the makers of Pakistani couldn't get out of their medieval worldview.

Even as for religion, India still has largely kept religion out of state policy and even proselyting is allowed, while its present in every aspect of Pakistani society. The rise of Hindu nationalism in India infact is identical to right wing in various European countries as a reaction against the policies of Left wing parties.

Although Hindi-Urdu are identical but even Urdu becoming Pakistan's national language has a religious colour(it was spoken less than 3% of the population) and sign of Muhajir dominance, in India preference of Hindi was based on linguistic demography.
 
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Aug 2019
286
United States
That's a generalized comment actually, the reason India and Pakistan are so different today lies in the history. The Muslim League comprised of people who were mainly landlords and old Mughal nobles despite having a Western looking Jinnah while those in the Congress were mainly Western educated Indians, so the democratic state based on Westminster model was a grand failure in Pakistan and because the makers of Pakistani couldn't get out of their medieval worldview.

Even as for religion, India still has largely kept religion out of state policy and even proselyting is allowed, while its present in every aspect of Pakistani society. The rise of Hindu nationalism in India infact is identical to right wing in various European countries as a reaction against the policies of Left wing parties.

Although Hindi-Urdu are identical but even Urdu becoming Pakistan's national language has a religious colour(it was spoken less than 3% of the population) and sign of Muhajir dominance, in India preference of Hindi was based on linguistic demography.
Perhaps as a first language but more than half the people could speak it as a second language and it was already the official language of most of the provinces since the 19th century. It isn't cause of the "dominance" of one community over others but just a logical choice for a lingua franca.
 

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,981
India
Perhaps as a first language but more than half the people could speak it as a second language and it was already the official language of most of the provinces since the 19th century. It isn't cause of the "dominance" of one community over others but just a logical choice for a lingua franca.
The person wanted to claim India and Pakistan as same. Only in Punjab, Urdu had official status, not in Sindh, NWFP, Balochistan and East Bengal, infact East Bengal and Sindh tried to resist Urdu. The adoption of Urdu in Punjab was popularization of Urdu as the language of Muslims and Mughal heritage after a bitter language dispute over Hindi vs Urdu in United Provinces and Bihar, If demography was to be considered, Bengali deserved to be the national language of Pakistan. Contrary to that, adoption of Hindi in India was based on demography, it was the most spoken language of India (40% of the population) followed by Telugu and Bengali by 7% each.
 

rvsakhadeo

Ad Honorem
Sep 2012
9,224
India
That's a generalized comment actually, the reason India and Pakistan are so different today lies in the history. The Muslim League comprised of people who were mainly landlords and old Mughal nobles despite having a Western looking Jinnah while those in the Congress were mainly Western educated Indians, so the democratic state based on Westminster model was a grand failure in Pakistan and because the makers of Pakistani couldn't get out of their medieval worldview.

Even as for religion, India still has largely kept religion out of state policy and even proselyting is allowed, while its present in every aspect of Pakistani society. The rise of Hindu nationalism in India infact is identical to right wing in various European countries as a reaction against the policies of Left wing parties.

Although Hindi-Urdu are identical but even Urdu becoming Pakistan's national language has a religious colour(it was spoken less than 3% of the population) and sign of Muhajir dominance, in India preference of Hindi was based on linguistic demography.
If one listens to Pakistan speakers on their TV channels, one notices that Sanskrit /Hindi words do crop up once in a while in their Urdu speech. Words like ' Satyanash ' meaning great loss or ' Dukhha ' meaning sorrow have been noticed by me. Jinnah must be turning in his grave that ' Kafir ' ( idolator ) culture has not yet been destroyed in the land of the Pure.
 

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,981
India
If one listens to Pakistan speakers on their TV channels, one notices that Sanskrit /Hindi words do crop up once in a while in their Urdu speech. Words like ' Satyanash ' meaning great loss or ' Dukhha ' meaning sorrow have been noticed by me. Jinnah must be turning in his grave that ' Kafir ' ( idolator ) culture has not yet been destroyed in the land of the Pure.
Promoting any other language apart from Urdu is seen as threat to ideology of Pakistan, this is the reason Pakistanis do not study their mother tongue in school or administration unlike India while in India every kid learns three languages in school, Pakistani school kids learn only English and Urdu, language like Punjabi or Pashto is never taught in school. Other thing that amuses me a lot is the Pakistan obsession of preserving Urdu ( a language native to Gangetic plains) from Indian influence.
 
Aug 2019
286
United States
If one listens to Pakistan speakers on their TV channels, one notices that Sanskrit /Hindi words do crop up once in a while in their Urdu speech. Words like ' Satyanash ' meaning great loss or ' Dukhha ' meaning sorrow have been noticed by me. Jinnah must be turning in his grave that ' Kafir ' ( idolator ) culture has not yet been destroyed in the land of the Pure.
Those words are rarely if ever used in Pakistan although a lot of people are aware of their meaning because of the popularity of Bollywood, when you hear these words on Pakistani news channels they're actually using it to spite india by using their language, it's pretty common in Pakistan to mock people by impersonating them - so people will make fun of your speech and mannerisms by imitating you. It's all about being perceptive and knowing when people are actually making fun of you lol.
 

royal744

Ad Honoris
Jul 2013
10,708
San Antonio, Tx
Interalia, is it not a sad indication of our present day 'political correctness' that ' nationalism ' has become a bad word ? I thought till now that it meant patriotism. I did not know that it now means jingoism.
Unfortunately, nationalism sometimes devolves into jingoism. Some leaders play the “nationalist card” when they have nothing else to cling to or say.
 
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rvsakhadeo

Ad Honorem
Sep 2012
9,224
India
Those words are rarely if ever used in Pakistan although a lot of people are aware of their meaning because of the popularity of Bollywood, when you hear these words on Pakistani news channels they're actually using it to spite india by using their language, it's pretty common in Pakistan to mock people by impersonating them - so people will make fun of your speech and mannerisms by imitating you. It's all about being perceptive and knowing when people are actually making fun of you lol.
There was no reason for the speakers on Pakistan TV channels to mock India or its languages, when I noticed the use of Sanskrit words in their speech. The use was fluent and natural and the context had nothing to do with India. Why can't you simply accept that the Urdu language contains quite a few Sanskrit words ?
 
Oct 2017
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America ??
All giant continental countries, like India, Indonesia, Russia, America, Australia, & I think China as well, are artificial & hence unnatural nations, who are usually the result of European colonialism gathering up large chunks of land ignoring what’s actually inside & who’s living in them.
 
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Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,981
India
Those words are rarely if ever used in Pakistan although a lot of people are aware of their meaning because of the popularity of Bollywood, when you hear these words on Pakistani news channels they're actually using it to spite india by using their language, it's pretty common in Pakistan to mock people by impersonating them - so people will make fun of your speech and mannerisms by imitating you. It's all about being perceptive and knowing when people are actually making fun of you lol.
The colloquial language aka natural speech spoken in North India and Deccan by native speakers of Hindi-Urdu has lots of Sanskrit words. Hindi/Urdu/Hindustani/Khariboli has descended from Vedic Sanskrit through Shauraseni Prakrit and Shauraseni Apabhramsha. It has more to Pakistani obsession with language purism even in spoken form and seeing the birthplace of Urdu(Gangetic plains) as a threat to Urdu language.
 
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