India - An Unnatural Nation

royal744

Ad Honoris
Jul 2013
10,706
San Antonio, Tx
Every nation-state is unnatural. The US is far more unnatural than India given that it is a settler colony where the indigenous population lives largely segregated and became minoritised through conquest and displacement, while the second biggest minority, Blacks, got there as a result of slavery. Not to mention that the US started out 10 times smaller than it is and now has territories as far as the Mariana Islands. To start calling India "unnatural" is simply to ignore such things.
Sure, but what is a “natural state”? Every single European nation’s population came from “somewhere else” and local settlements displaced others. The only real difference is that “it happened” longer ago than in the US, Canada or South America.

In India, the populations of the various regions are very old and while populations within India did move around a fair amount, these populations are millennia-old. US populations are quite recent, comparatively speaking and came in waves, people looking for a better life in a new place where one’s own sweat could produce a great deal of future equity.

Some American natives do live on reservations. These reservations are like independent countries, not ruled by theFederal Government and not ruled by the states in which they are located. About the only thing they cannot do is have their own foreign policy. Most reservations are quite poor, or modest in income, but some are fairly wealthy. Many natives don’t live on reservations because their income opportunities - for the educated ones, to be sure - are far greater outside.

Since nearly everyone - excluding the natives - is from somewhere else and settlement began in the East Coast and gradually moved East to West in a continuous but variable wave, it is not surprising that the northeast coast cities were the gateways through which immigrants passed. There were also important gateways in New Orleans and Galveston on the US Gulf Coast.

So, yes, except for the nomadic tribes in North America - the numbers are unknown and disputed - the country appeared to be quite empty at the time of the initial white settlements.
 

royal744

Ad Honoris
Jul 2013
10,706
San Antonio, Tx
In so far as Narendra Modi is concerned, he is a very straightforward, honest person who is leading India very skillfully. In no way Johnson's cynical 18th century saying is applicable to him.
We have a lot of unthinking “super patriots” in this country who have given the word “nationalism” a bad connotation.
 

rvsakhadeo

Ad Honorem
Sep 2012
9,224
India
All giant continental countries, like India, Indonesia, Russia, America, Australia, & I think China as well, are artificial & hence unnatural nations, who are usually the result of European colonialism gathering up large chunks of land ignoring what’s actually inside & who’s living in them.
India and China have always been unified political entities since thousands of years, India because of Hinduism and China because Taoism and later because of Buddhism. The cultures of these two countries were the binding forces. Indonesia is an artificial construction. USA, Australia are obviously artificial. Not Russia.
 

rvsakhadeo

Ad Honorem
Sep 2012
9,224
India
India is often a puzzle to western historians. Some modern thinkers had expressed doubts, soon after Independence, that India will survive as one country, in view of the large number of languages and the caste barriers among the Hindus. They had missed out the historical facts that there had been many external aggressors starting from Alexander against whom India had fought. And withstood successfully the challenges to the integrity of India. Even the challenge by Islamic aggressors was faced, absorbed and eventually subdued. Even the British had to pack up and go admitting that they could not ' hold down India any longer. ' The Hindu culture is a strong binding agent.
 
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rvsakhadeo

Ad Honorem
Sep 2012
9,224
India
India usually reacts as one unified country whenever threatened by an external aggressor, for example, the Nanda Kingdom, located in Pataliputra ( modern Patna ), thousands of kilometers away the scene of battle between Alexander and Porus, mobilised it's huge army and sent it to face Alexander as soon as the news of the defeat of Porus reached it. Take a very modern example of the nation reacting as one against the PRC, after the defeat of the Indian army at the hands of the PRC army in 1962. The spirit of India is one unified everlasting entity.
 
Aug 2019
286
United States
India and China have always been unified political entities since thousands of years, India because of Hinduism and China because Taoism and later because of Buddhism. The cultures of these two countries were the binding forces. Indonesia is an artificial construction. USA, Australia are obviously artificial. Not Russia.
This simply is not true, India was unified into a federation by the British only a couple centuries ago - it was just a region home to hundreds of different nations and religions and people with their own histories. Your flag, anthem, constitution all came into existence a little more than half a century ago, there was never no Indian nation nor a country called India prior to the arrival of the British.
 

Futurist

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May 2014
22,281
SoCal
This simply is not true, India was unified into a federation by the British only a couple centuries ago - it was just a region home to hundreds of different nations and religions and people with their own histories. Your flag, anthem, constitution all came into existence a little more than half a century ago, there was never no Indian nation nor a country called India prior to the arrival of the British.
The Hindu glue is apparently very strong, though. Of course, one could claim that the very classification of various Indian beliefs as Hinduism is itself a Western invention, no?
 

kandal

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,813
USA
The Hindu glue is apparently very strong, though. Of course, one could claim that the very classification of various Indian beliefs as Hinduism is itself a Western invention, no?
Not really. It is common Gods, caste system, and religious taboos that bind all those slightly different beliefs together, and make Hinduism, though Hindus didn't call it by that name (or any name) till recent times.

Indians generally address India as one nation as though it existed as such for a long long time, though it is not true. I believe it is because they think in terms of religion and culture and not politics to define unity.
 
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Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,978
India
This simply is not true, India was unified into a federation by the British only a couple centuries ago - it was just a region home to hundreds of different nations and religions and people with their own histories. Your flag, anthem, constitution all came into existence a little more than half a century ago, there was never no Indian nation nor a country called India prior to the arrival of the British.
nationalism came into being in mid 1800s. See the map of Mughal Empire in 1707 and Maratha Empire in 1760, they ruled almost all of India. British conquest of India was the outcome of political turmoil in India after disintegration of Mughal Empire and defeat of Marathas in the third battle of Panipat.