India and gunpowder

Mar 2019
1,473
KL
#1
surfing through internet i came across a claim that indians knew gunpowder formula already and texts such as Sukraniti which is traditionally dated earlier than chinese texts giving formula. But some historians believe that these are later additions to the texts.

Gunpowder, Explosives and the State

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the text not only gives a formula of the gunpowder, but also firearms which are called nalika, it is also important to note that arabs imported much of their gunpowder from india as well, but the arab texts mention the name of saltpetre as chinese snow. There is also some very early other textual sources for indians using rockets as well

https://insa.nic.in/writereaddata/UpLoadedFiles/IJHS/Vol4_2005_06_EPIC OF SALTPETRE TO GUNPOWDER.pdf

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but is there any archaeological evidence for the textual reference?

recenly indian courts have also been moved to ban firecrackers during diwali since it causes pollution, again, the history of the use of firecrackers in diwali came into discussion with the leftists arguing that indians/hindus didn't know them and it was a foreign influence, the right wing argued that historically indians knew them without any foreign influence hence justification of using them because of historic links.

reference to it in Sukraniti

http://repository.ias.ac.in/74675/1/74675.pdf

other references

The History and Chronology of Gunpowder and Gunpowder Weapons (c.1000 to 1850)



regards
 
Last edited:
May 2017
278
China
#2
surfing through internet i came across a claim that indians knew gunpowder formula already and texts such as Sukraniti which is traditionally dated earlier than chinese texts giving formula. But some historians believe that these are later additions to the texts.

Gunpowder, Explosives and the State

View attachment 20620
View attachment 20621
View attachment 20622

the text not only gives a formula of the gunpowder, but also firearms which are called nalika, it is also important to note that arabs imported much of their gunpowder from india as well, but the arab texts mention the name of saltpetre as chinese snow. There is also some very early other textual sources for indians using rockets as well

https://insa.nic.in/writereaddata/UpLoadedFiles/IJHS/Vol4_2005_06_EPIC OF SALTPETRE TO GUNPOWDER.pdf

View attachment 20619

View attachment 20618

but is there any archaeological evidence for the textual reference?

recenly indian courts have also been moved to ban firecrackers during diwali since it causes pollution, again, the history of the use of firecrackers in diwali came into discussion with the leftists arguing that indians/hindus didn't know them and it was a foreign influence, the right wing argued that historically indians knew them without any foreign influence hence justification of using them because of historic links.

reference to it in Sukraniti

http://repository.ias.ac.in/74675/1/74675.pdf

other references

The History and Chronology of Gunpowder and Gunpowder Weapons (c.1000 to 1850)



regards

NO, it is typical indian ultra nationalist claim just like indian claim invented internet thousand years ago, not much different than korean ultra nationalist, non-sense. all sources even from western sources stated that china invented gunpowder.

Minister claims India invented the internet thousands of years ago and generals used it to send messages during battles
Minister claims India invented the internet thousands of years ago | Daily Mail Online

Hindus invented internet 9,000 years ago, Indian minister says
Hindus invented internet 9,000 years ago, Indian minister says

An Indian Politician Claimed Ancient Hindus Invented the Internet
An Indian Politician Claimed Ancient Hindus Invented the Internet

Indian minister ridiculed for claiming Internet was invented by ancient Indians
Indian minister ridiculed for claiming Internet was invented by ancient Indians

Minister ridiculed for saying ancient India invented internet
Minister says India invented internet
 
Mar 2019
1,473
KL
#5
all sources even from western sources stated that china invented gunpowder.
the sources i have quoted are infact western secondary sources/oppert and chinese sources, i dont know why are you calling it ''nationalism'', the text which has been mentioned i-e sukraniti is dated to the late gupta empire period, but other western scholars have disputed it as late additions. some scholars maintain they were added before eleventh century AD, the chinese sources also themselves mention familiarity of salt petre by the indian buddhist monks traveling to china.

the argument is the unreliable dating of indian text which is generally dated to the gupta periods.

as one scholar suggests that gunpowder in indian texts is an unexplored and unresearched arena.

i have also asked if there is any archaeological support for such argument, this author has listed one thirteenth century firearm carving

The History and Chronology of Gunpowder and Gunpowder Weapons (c.1000 to 1850)

regards
 
Aug 2010
16,176
Welsh Marches
#6
lmao, seriously? i only heard the internet one. did indian ultra nationalist claim something else?
Oh just about eveything, from atom bombs to mercury vortex engines (my favourite), and
  • The secrets of constructing aeroplanes, which will not break, which cannot be cut, will not catch fire, and cannot be destroyed.
  • The secret of making planes motionless.
  • The secret of making planes invisible.
  • The secret of hearing conversations and other sounds in enemy places.
  • The secret of retrieving photographs of the interior of enemy planes
  • The secret of ascertaining the direction of enemy planes approach.
  • The secret of making persons in enemy planes lose consciousness.
  • The secret of destroying enemy planes.
more here: Vimanas - Mercury Vortex Technology

Hindu Texts Describe Flying Vimanas And Ancient Nuclear War
 
Mar 2019
1,473
KL
#7
Oh just about eveything, from atom bombs to mercury vortex engines (my favourite), and
  • The secrets of constructing aeroplanes, which will not break, which cannot be cut, will not catch fire, and cannot be destroyed.
  • The secret of making planes motionless.
  • The secret of making planes invisible.
  • The secret of hearing conversations and other sounds in enemy places.
  • The secret of retrieving photographs of the interior of enemy planes
  • The secret of ascertaining the direction of enemy planes approach.
  • The secret of making persons in enemy planes lose consciousness.
  • The secret of destroying enemy planes.
more here: Vimanas - Mercury Vortex Technology

Hindu Texts Describe Flying Vimanas And Ancient Nuclear War
mate these nut jobs themselves were fanned by people like Oppenheimer who openly quoted passages from bhagavat gita and citing how nuclear explosions had already taken place in ancient periods. nobody is claiming out of time period invention like flying machines in the bronze age, but only discussing the possibility of ones which were contemporary with contemporary textual references.

regards
 

tornada

Ad Honoris
Mar 2013
15,385
India
#8
mate these nut jobs themselves were fanned by people like Oppenheimer who openly quoted passages from bhagavat gita and citing how nuclear explosions had already taken place in ancient periods. nobody is claiming out of time period invention like flying machines in the bronze age, but only discussing the possibility of ones which were contemporary with contemporary textual references.

regards
What the heck? Oppenheimer was quoting the Gita because he was attracted to the philosophy. Not because he believed in Ancient Indian Atomic Bombs. If a car-maker puts a Molon Labe sticker on an SUV it doesn't mean the car maker believes the Ancient Spartans had automobiles.
 
Likes: Tulius
Mar 2019
1,473
KL
#9
What the heck? Oppenheimer was quoting the Gita because he was attracted to the philosophy. Not because he believed in Ancient Indian Atomic Bombs. If a car-maker puts a Molon Labe sticker on an SUV it doesn't mean the car maker believes the Ancient Spartans had automobiles.
this is not the thread about oppenheimer, open another thread and i will reply.

regards
 

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