IrishAfroAmericans

Sep 2012
1,074
Tarkington, Texas
#51
There were significant Irish Communities in America. New York and Boston were the closest and probably the cheapest to reach. The Irish have an area of New Orleans named for them, the Irish Coast. Many Companies raised for the Civil War were Irish units. The most famous was the Texas Davis Guard, an Artillery unit under Lieutenant Richard Dowling. They were 45 Irish Stevedores from the Docks of Galveston, 6 small smoothbore cannon and their Commander was only 19! The Yankees tried to force their way into the Sabine River with 5000 men and many Gunboats. When it was over, the Yankees lost 2 gunboats, and 200 men. Some poor men jumped into the Swamp on the East Bank and straggled back for the next several days begging to be made Prisoners. The Confederate Congress awarded the men Gold Medals for their valor.

Each Confederate state raised at least one and sometimes several Irish Companies. The Louisiana Tigers were raised from dockworkers of the New Orleans Port.

Pruitt
 

Nemowork

Ad Honorem
Jan 2011
8,447
South of the barcodes
#52
Regarding the Catholics in the Old South, I read Margaret Michel's 'Gone with the wind' as a youngster during the good ole commie days and i do remember that the main protagonist Scarlet O'Hara is a daughter of an Irish immigrant planter. I read recently that the Catholics in New York alone were more then Catholics in the whole of South and the antebellum New Yorkers in question were almost 100% of Irish descent, whilst in the New Orleans for example these were mostly of French descent. Most of the antebellum Irish lived in the North, NYC and Boston.
Its also different generations and origins. The south tended to attract what the Americans call Scots-Irish, basically the descendants of the Scots and English settlers sent to Ireland who then moved on to America through the 18th century, the North tended to pick up economic migrants particularly after the potato famine so in the south the Irish would be established slave and land owning families in the north they would be new catholic immigrants.

In military service there were reckoned to be 40,000 Irish in the confederate forces and 160,000 in the northern forces to give you some idea.
 

Theodoric

Ad Honorem
Mar 2012
2,895
#53
Actually I have heard "Euro-Americans" and have used it myself - when I find it awkward to use terms like 'white' or 'Caucasian.' One example is when discussing conflict between whites and Indians. You can't really say that the Indians fought Americans. That denies that the Indians were also Americans. Native Americans vs Euro-Americans makes more sense. It's especially helpful if you want to emphasize that the conflict was in the past and today the two groups have found common ground - both groups are Americans. Euro-Americans and Afro-Americans would emphasize the same thing - common ground. The tendency of Euro-Americans to just call ourselves Americans might actually emphasize the Afro-, Asian-, Latino-, and Native Americans are different somehow.
Though I think the way you’re describing it is more of a generalization than an identity, like how African American is an identity. Someone who is white in the US, probably knows the countries their ancestors came from, and probably has an identity they associate with - I know many Americans come over here claiming they are Irish (especially Irish), German, English, Scottish, Italian, etc... I would guess many natives of the US know what tribal backgrounds they have, from what I gather even people with one distant native ancestor still know which tribe. Even if they don’t care, a patrilineal name can generally identify a background among white people in the US.
 

Chlodio

Forum Staff
Aug 2016
4,320
Dispargum
#54
Though I think the way you’re describing it is more of a generalization than an identity, like how African American is an identity. Someone who is white in the US, probably knows the countries their ancestors came from, and probably has an identity they associate with - I know many Americans come over here claiming they are Irish (especially Irish), German, English, Scottish, Italian, etc... I would guess many natives of the US know what tribal backgrounds they have, from what I gather even people with one distant native ancestor still know which tribe. Even if they don’t care, a patrilineal name can generally identify a background among white people in the US.
You're right. I've only seen Euro-American used in a scholarly or academic context. It's a way of describing a large ethnic or racial group, not an individual. When discussing cowboys and Indians, you don't break out each individual cowboy by his ethnic identity. You just need to establish that he's not an Indian.
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,294
#55
Maybe 5% of black surnames are Irish. Most are English, Welsh, or Scottish. There was a large Irish Catholic immigration from about 1830 on. However, in colonial times Irish Catholics would usually go to Spanish America rather than English America.

Whites with names taken by black might not mind because it was obvious when blacks took their former master's names that they weren't legitimately related to the sometimes prominent family, because they were black. There are many blacks named Washington, Jefferson, and other names of prominent families.

I am not sure if the Catholic population in the south was less than the north. There were less Irish and German Catholic immigrants in the south. However, there were Catholics of French and Spanish descent along the Gulf Coast. Louisiana had the highest percentage, but there were French and Spanish Catholics in several states.

I guess "Gone with the Wind" was emphasized in Communist countries for some reason. Maybe in fit with Communist theories about class and showed how bad it was to be defeated by the US.
 
Sep 2012
1,074
Tarkington, Texas
#56
The Scots Irish were Protestant over everything else. My Mother's family was Scots Irish. When the Scots Irish came over from Ulster they could not afford good farmland so they settled the Frontiers or even just squatted. The big land owners would buy up the new lands taken from the Native Americans and then come in and evict any squatters. Many famous Americans were Scots Irish on the Frontiers (David Crockett, Daniel Boone to name a couple). My guess is the Scots Irish had a little money and were not too proud to farm the poorer lands. The Scots Irish settled the Appalachians and moved West from there.

The Catholic Irish were mostly Tenant Farmers and during the Famine Years only had enough (sometimes) money to get a boat ticket. They often had friends/family already in their destination who would help them find job. During the Civil War, Recruiting Sergeants would meet the ships and recruit men on the Docks. A bonus would look good if you had no money and no job!

Someone mentioned Margaret Mitchell's "Gone With the Wind". Both of Scarlett's parents were Catholic. The Father was born in Ireland and he bought Tara and then married a French woman from Louisiana. Scarlett complained she could not tie a corset around her waist to match the size she wore before she married. She had once had a 14" waist and was complaining she could not get below a 18" waist after several children! Wow! Mitchell lived in Baton Rouge and became quite famous for her novel. The School Board named a High School Tara (I doubt it is still open).

Pruitt
 
Likes: Slavon

Code Blue

Ad Honorem
Feb 2015
4,121
Caribbean
#57
Never heard of it. Sounds silly.

Irish surnames? Really? Anyone do a correlation? Imagine the difficulties. Common names for blacks are often just common names in the US. Take Johnson: is that an Irish name, or a common name that Irish people also have, In Scandinavia, it's Johansen

Slaves often carried the surname of their master, and after emancipation often took whatever name they liked: famous names (Washington), names of admired friends, names that just sounded good. (As others heave said) Just off the top of my head, out of the thousands of black people I have known or worked with personally, hall-of-fame athletes, musicians of 'note," etc., I cannot think of a single one with a surname that starts with o-apostrophe. Others cant find them either:
Most common last names for Blacks in the United States

But it is possible there was a secret breeding program yet to be discovered.
 
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Nemowork

Ad Honorem
Jan 2011
8,447
South of the barcodes
#60
Never heard of it. Sounds silly.

Irish surnames? Really? Anyone do a correlation? Imagine the difficulties. Common names for blacks are often just common names in the US. Take Johnson: is that an Irish name, or a common name that Irish people also have, In Scandinavia, it's Johansen
Neither, in an American context its Scottish, Johnson is one of the border families who eventually became Scots-irish and then American

As an aside, as the guy said himseld the name Oshea in ice cubes name has nothing to do with ireland