Is a Fascist Russia likely to be an expansionist power or a status quo power?

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,552
Republika Srpska
It is too difficult to answer. The Soviets were capable of some impressive feats, so it is not outside the realms of possibility that they would have been able to Latinize the Russian alphabet.

Pretty much yes.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,826
SoCal
OK.

Also, it's quite interesting that in spite of decades of Russification, even former SSRs such as Ukraine remained largely Ukrainophone outside of the major cities:

 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,552
Republika Srpska
TBF, the map is from 2001 and the Ukrainian government after independence pursued a policy of Ukrainization and de-Russification. Also many Ukrainians speak Russian as a second language.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,826
SoCal
The Ukrainian % only fell by several % between 1989 and 2001. As for Russian as a second language, Yes, that's true, but having something as a second language means that it's not your preference.
 
Jun 2016
1,786
Russia
That's absolute madness to call Stalin, Lenin or any other true Communist to be nationalist without any doubt, if it isn't lie on purpose. I can't imagine ignorant that can read and write that doesn't how much grew ALL national cultures in Russia during Soviet times. Georgia for example. Millions of people watched Georgian movies, read Georgian books, visited Georgian resorts. Now Georgia is very poor but all the same by far not as poor as it was before revolution: no rouds, no industry, agriculture very poor. Even today's capitalist Georgia is something better. The same about Ukraine. Most of these who adore the today's Nazi gvt in Ukraine aren't even able to find Ukraine on the map, not to speak about knowledge of Ukrainian culture. It is less known in world than Zoulou culture. During Soviet time, especially in Stalin's time there were made world famous Ukrainian movies and literary works.The same about Baltics all other Soviet victims.
Btw, the nationalism is starting from dividing. I wouldn't call it Soviet achievement that there were no national districts in Russian cities.In the same block of flats there lived many nationalities even in Tsarist Russia. Unlike national Ghettoes in USA and some other countries nobody cared what etnicity neighbors were - and that even before Revolution. The myth about holodomor is obvious lie for any Russian and any Ukrainian with brains. The population weren't divided. police weren't divided by nationality, Red army was international with rather many Ukrainian generals, officer and marshals, In Soviet gvt there were many Ukrainians, in the gvt of Ukraine there were exclusively citizens of Ukraine. Many thousands of Ukrainian guerillas fought against Hitler for Soviet power only decade after imaginary 'holodomor". This smallest minority of Nazi Ukrainians were from Western Ukraine, for whose REAL holodomor is responsible Poland.
 

Dir

Nov 2015
1,957
Kyiv
Fine, let's talk about actions. I'll now quote myself from another thread:

Lenin deliberately made concessions to the Ukrainians...
- a very interesting wording. Maybe you need to start with the fact that Lenin sent Russian troops o to Ukraine in late 1917. And they occupied the country, liquidated the sovereign UPR - Ukrainian People's Republic - and established a Russian occupation regime in Ukraine. This regime dispersed all Ukrainian parties and ensured the dictatorship of the Communist Party in it. The Communist Party (Bolsheviks) of Ukraine - KP(b)U was created in April 1918 outside Ukraine - in Russian Taganrog. And three months later the KP(b)U became an integral part of the Russian Communist Party - the RCP(b) - РКП(б). Perhaps you will be interested to know that at the end of 1918 among the 4364 members of this "Ukrainian" Communist Party there were 130 Ukrainians. That is less than 3%...

At the same time, KP(b)U immediately set the task of formally uniting Ukraine with Russia. Why formal? Because the so-called Ukrainian SSR - a puppet state created in Ukraine during the Russian occupation did not have her own army, security service, economy, and everything else - the Russian Red Army, the Cheka-OGPU-NKVD hosted in it, and the whole industry in Ukraine was nationalized after Russian occupation and was under direct Moscow control and guidance.

Here it was necessary to start with this. To what "Ukrainians" did Lenin do concessions? For 3% of Ukrainians in KP(b)U? And the rest of Ukraine , raised a powerful uprising against the Moscow occupation in 1919 and forced the Kremlin to make temporary concessions? In the same way as the protests of the workers in Petrograd, the uprising in Kronstadt and the Tambov mutiny forced the Kremlin authorities to retreat temporarily. They had to abolish the communism that they introduced in Russia, replace the prodrazverstka (requisitioning of agricultural produce) with prodnalog (agricultural tax) - and introduce the "bourgeois" NEP. The New Economy Politics.

Say - Lenin did not let the Jews lead Ukraine? According to Bukharin, the KP(b)U was "Russian-Jewish." It was headed in 1918 by Georgy Pyatakov (Russian), Seraphim Gopner (Jewess), Emanuel Quiring (German), and in 1919 - Stanislav Kosior (Pole). Where are the Ukrainians?

He allowed the Borotbists to join the Ukrainian Communist Party and he prevented Jews from gaining any important positions in Ukraine, knowing that such a thing would be unpopular there. These are no minor things. The Borotbists were associated with Left SR, a bitter enemy of the Bolsheviks
Borotbisty? These were the Social Revolutionaries — members of the party of socialist revolutionaries. Of the 15 thousand Ukrainian Borotbists just 4 thousand agreed to cooperate with the Russian occupation regime in 1920. They were accepted into the Communist Party one at a time. And they really worked in the occupation structure of the Ukrainian SSR. And in 1935, Moscow organized the "Case of the counter-revolutionary anti-terrorist organization." 17 people received from 7 to 10 years in prison. And in 1937, seven of them were shot.

Tell you that not one of the Ukrainian "Ukrainizers" died a natural death? Shootings, a killer’s bullet, or suicide before an imminent arrest is their fate.

And doesn’t it seem strange to you to the Communists to “Ukrainize Ukraine”? - Despite the fact that according to the 1926 census, there were 23,218,860 Ukrainians and just 2,677,166 Russians in Ukraine - that is, almost 10 times less than the Ukrainians. The number of the Russians in Ukraine were not much more than the Jews (1,574, 391).

Ukrainization ended with mass repressions against the Ukrainian intelligentsia, the "Shot Revival" and the monstrous action of Holodomor for Ukrainian peasants. The secret Decree of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks and the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR dated December 14, 1932 "On grain procurement in Ukraine, the North Caucasus and the Western region" adopted at the height of the Holodomor action in Ukraine and the Ukrainian part of the Kuban said:

...instead of the correct Bolshevik implementation of national policy in a number of regions of Ukraine, Ukrainization was carried out mechanically, without taking into account the specific features of each region, without careful selection of Bolshevik Ukrainian cadres, which facilitated the bourgeois-nationalist elements, Petliurists, etc., creating their own legal covers, their counter-revolutionary cells and organizations ..

- this has drawn the line of a campaign to “Ukrainize” the occupying Russian regime in Ukraine

As for the Lenin's concessions to the Ukrainians I can answer you in the same vein. That Hitler made even greater concessions to the Ukrainians during the Nazi occupation of Ukraine in 1941-1944 )))

100% of newspapers in Ukraine at that time were published in the Ukrainian language, the Nazis allowed the Ukrainians to open 20 monasteries and several thousand churches closed by the Bolsheviks, the German police in Ukraine- Schutzmannshaft - were completely flooded with Ukrainians, and the mass of Ukrainians participated in local occupational self-government. Moreover, under the Nazi occupation Ukraine had her own currency with banknotes in Ukrainian. And the campaign of Russification of Ukrainians which was launched by the Russian occupation authorities, was completely phased out, etc., etc.

This is just for comparison for the deeds of the both occupation regimes in Ukraine
 

Dir

Nov 2015
1,957
Kyiv
That's absolute madness to call Stalin, Lenin or any other true Communist to be nationalist without any doubt, if it isn't lie on purpose
May 24, 1945 in the Kremlin a Gala Reception - Торжественный прием - was held in honor of the commanders of the Red Army. On this occasion Stalin made a famous toast:

- I drink first of all for the health of the Russian people because they are the most outstanding of the nations that make up the Soviet Union.

I raise a toast to the health of the Russian people because they have earned general recognition in this war as the leading force of the Soviet Union among all the peoples of our country. I raise a toast to the health of the Russian people, not only because they are the leading people, but also because they have a clear mind, a strong character, and patience.

... the Russian people ... believed in the correctness of the policy of their Government and made sacrifices to ensure the defeat of Germany. And this confidence of the Russian people in the Soviet government turned out to be the decisive force that ensured a historic victory ...
Thanks to him, the Russian people, for this trust!
For the health of the Russian people! "
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,552
Republika Srpska
- a very interesting wording. Maybe you need to start with the fact that Lenin sent Russian troops o to Ukraine in late 1917. And they occupied the country, liquidated the sovereign UPR - Ukrainian People's Republic - and established a Russian occupation regime in Ukraine. This regime dispersed all Ukrainian parties and ensured the dictatorship of the Communist Party in it. The Communist Party (Bolsheviks) of Ukraine - KP(b)U was created in April 1918 outside Ukraine - in Russian Taganrog. And three months later the KP(b)U became an integral part of the Russian Communist Party - the RCP(b) - РКП(б).
Yes, the Bolsheviks attacked Ukraine. I never denied that. It does not erase their later policies.

Perhaps you will be interested to know that at the end of 1918 among the 4364 members of this "Ukrainian" Communist Party there were 130 Ukrainians. That is less than 3%...
And by 1922 it was 22% and by 1933 60%.

Tell you that not one of the Ukrainian "Ukrainizers" died a natural death? Shootings, a killer’s bullet, or suicide before an imminent arrest is their fate.
Yes, and? Stalin killed many prominent Bolshevik leaders. That does not erase Soviet Ukrainization nor makes it non-Soviet.

And doesn’t it seem strange to you to the Communists to “Ukrainize Ukraine”? - Despite the fact that according to the 1926 census, there were 23,218,860 Ukrainians and just 2,677,166 Russians in Ukraine - that is, almost 10 times less than the Ukrainians. The number of the Russians in Ukraine were not much more than the Jews (1,574, 391).
By "Ukrainize" it meant the spread of Ukrainian language and the promotion of Ukrainian culture after centuries of being ruled by the RUSSIAN Empire that implemented Russification.

As for the Lenin's concessions to the Ukrainians I can answer you in the same vein. That Hitler made even greater concessions to the Ukrainians during the Nazi occupation of Ukraine in 1941-1944 )))
Yes, you are so quick to point out how the Nazis were so much better than the Soviets and you ignored multiple posts of mine where I showed that the regimes were not too dissimilar in brutality and oppression. But that would contradict your "Russians are evil" narrative.
 

Dir

Nov 2015
1,957
Kyiv
What about my second question here?

Also, was Russification continued after Stalin's death as well?
- since 1972. I remember that time very well.

A new round of Russification began in Ukraine with the removal of Petro Shelest from the post of First Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine. I heard the wording "for supporting Ukrainian nationalism" in a Kiev school - I was then in 10th grade. It sounded from our teacher - she spent a classroom hour specially on this issue - unambiguously as directed by the party leadership

Before this, the main ideologist Suslov flew to Kiev. And he really did not like that the tablets with the names of Kiev streets were only in Ukrainian in the city. Shelest was sent to Moscow. The second wave of Russification of Ukraine began. My cource mate at the institute where I studied later told me that before in his Bila Tserkva city there were 9 Ukrainian schools and 2 Russian. And after that there were 9 Russian schools and 2 Ukrainian
 
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