Is Abraham the most influential human being in world history?

Mar 2019
1,535
KL
#21
Not really, Scotland, Ireland, Russia and Scandinavia are not Christianized by the Roman Empire, but by independent Christian churches or by themselves.

In Africa, Egypt and Ethiopia already have many Christians before the Roman legalize Christianity in the Roman Empire.

In Asia, The Middle East, Central Asia, China and Kerala also have interconnected Christian community which couldn't be the result of the Roman Empire spreading it there.

Also how did you get that map? Did it count some Indian sages visiting those areas as sign of those area having Buddhist or Hindu community?

What I remember is that there is an Indian sage who immolate himself in Antioch and that's it.

Christianity do have its fringe area too though like Tibet and Korea. If you want to go further, there are records of a church in Sumatra which predate Islam arriving in Indonesia or the sign of cross beneath an old temple in Japan which would predate Buddhism in Japan, however these would be just a suggestion or coincidence.
having one or two christian is not the criteria here, in that case judaism also spread to india, china afghanistan etc, the criteria is having a christian dominant areas and kingdoms. Christianity did spread to axum and ethiopia without roman influence, but largely christianity spread because of roman influence.

regards
 

Maribat

Ad Honorem
Mar 2012
5,048
#22
Abraham from the Bible is the single most influential person in history. What is your opinion on this?


Even we disregard his historicity...

Is it because either religion group like the Indian religion didn't have their own holy war?
If we disregard the historicity... then my bet is on Adam-the-first-human-on-Earth
 
Aug 2009
5,429
Londinium
#23
1st farmer
1st person to utilize fire
1st person to domesticate a horse and/or dog
1st person to work stone

There are far more influential people from our history, while their origin or name is lost to time we can be sure they existed, unlike Abraham.
 
Nov 2018
289
Denmark
#24
And the spread before Emperor Constantine was certainly not with the good will of the Romans.
Christianity did spread to axum and ethiopia without roman influence, but largely christianity spread because of roman influence.

regards
Spread of Christianity in Europe. Most of it is after the fall of Rome.And the spread before Emperor Constantine was certainly not with the good will of the Romans.

the-christianization-of-europe.png
 
Jun 2019
29
Southeast Asia
#25
having one or two christian is not the criteria here, in that case judaism also spread to india, china afghanistan etc, the criteria is having a christian dominant areas and kingdoms. Christianity did spread to axum and ethiopia without roman influence, but largely christianity spread because of roman influence.

regards
I think we have to determine which Roman influence that really aid Christianity in spreading.

1. The ease of idea moving around the Roman Empire.

2. Roman state support.

I would say 1 is important, however 2 is not vital for Christianity to spread in Europe. There are already many Christian before Constantine legalize it.

Also if Christianity spread because of the Roman Empire, wouldn't it be a point in favor of Christianity?

An empire that are a foreign occupier, both in culture and religion, and persecute Christian, then turn into a supporter which declare any other religion illegal.

That would be crazy, it is like saying Saudi Arabia turn Hindu and force any non-Hindu to become Hindu.
 
Likes: Runa
Mar 2019
1,535
KL
#26
I think we have to determine which Roman influence that really aid Christianity in spreading.

1. The ease of idea moving around the Roman Empire.

2. Roman state support.

I would say 1 is important, however 2 is not vital for Christianity to spread in Europe. There are already many Christian before Constantine legalize it.

Also if Christianity spread because of the Roman Empire, wouldn't it be a point in favor of Christianity?

An empire that are a foreign occupier, both in culture and religion, and persecute Christian, then turn into a supporter which declare any other religion illegal.

That would be crazy, it is like saying Saudi Arabia turn Hindu and force any non-Hindu to become Hindu.
i think you are first of all assuming that all the roman kings persecuted christianity, secondly you are assuming that roman religion was like islam and saudi arabia, doesnt need to be mentioned that roman paganism was nothing like islam or any codified religion to begin with, romans frequently assimilated other deities of other religions into their paganism. christianity was shaped in the 400s, if the christianity didn't spread to europe because of roman persecution, then fail to understand why it made to non roman areas like axum only in the 400s and britain only in 600s

regards
 
Jun 2019
29
Southeast Asia
#27
i think you are first of all assuming that all the roman kings persecuted christianity, secondly you are assuming that roman religion was like islam and saudi arabia, doesnt need to be mentioned that roman paganism was nothing like islam or any codified religion to begin with, romans frequently assimilated other deities of other religions into their paganism. christianity was shaped in the 400s, if the christianity didn't spread to europe because of roman persecution, then fail to understand why it made to non roman areas like axum only in the 400s and britain only in 600s

regards
Everyone in the Roman Empire have to give an offering to the gods and the emperor, I think that count as state religion.

One of the first state to declare itself Christian is Armenia, however its allegiance pretty much go back and forth between the Romans and Parthian/Persian.

I remember there was once a challenge issued in a Christian gathering. The challenge is to recreate the New Testament with only manuscript from the 2nd-4th century. It turns out that someone manage to recreate the New Testament with only a few verses missing.

That was in the late 19th century-early 20th century.

There is nothing new added to the Bible after Constantine, it is the church that slowly become more involved in politics.
 
Jun 2019
29
Southeast Asia
#28
What the Roman Empire did is slowly change Christianity into a religious institution with control over political rulers, at least in Western Europe.
 
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Nov 2018
289
Denmark
#29
i think you are first of all assuming that all the roman kings persecuted christianity, secondly you are assuming that roman religion was like islam and saudi arabia, doesnt need to be mentioned that roman paganism was nothing like islam or any codified religion to begin with, romans frequently assimilated other deities of other religions into their paganism. christianity was shaped in the 400s, if the christianity didn't spread to europe because of roman persecution, then fail to understand why it made to non roman areas like axum only in the 400s and britain only in 600s

regards
Most of the time the Roman Emperors just ignored Christianity, for obvious reasons they did not promote it but neither did they persecute it.

The reason it spread slowly in Europe was probably that people weren’t interested.

In addition, one cannot incorporate a monotheistic religion in a polytheistic when one of the core points of the last is that you sacrifice to the Emperor

It was only after Emperor Constantine and his successors encouraged Christianity that it began to spread throughout the Roman Empire.

Celtic monks reintroduced the Christianity in England in the 600's after the Anglo/Saxon invasion had pushed Christianity out.
 

Theodoric

Ad Honorem
Mar 2012
2,814
#30
Not at all.

1. The Abrahamic religions are not his inventions. He is a character who made the first covenant with God according to the religions. The theologies and customs of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are much later inventions.

2. He did not spread/influence many. Most of the spreading of Abrahamic religions came about 2000 years after the alleged life of Abraham, and the versions that spread were different religions, they merely used him as a background figure. He is not credited with founding/inventing or converting people to Islam or Christianity, or even Judaism.

3. An argument like “He’s the one that got the ball rolling to half the world’s population” is a poor argument too. For example, Martin Cooper is not a name that many would put to “most influential person in history” - yet modern models of his invention from the 1970s, the mobile phone, has people dedicated to it for hours every single day; that would be considered on the most extreme end of religious devotion. The reach of mobile phones is estimated at 4.68 billion people, 65-70% of human population. We don’t know if Abraham ever existed, we know Martin Cooper existed as he is still alive today.
 
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Likes: Kamayani

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