Is Abraham the most influential human being in world history?

Apr 2019
294
India
#31
Not at all.

He has nothing to do with the creation/invention of Christianity or Islam. He’s a character in a book who supposedly made the first covenant with God. There’s no credit to give to him as being the person who converted followers to Christianity, Islam, or even Judaism.

As well, if you want to argue “He is the first influencer in the chain of many, so he should count since the others followed him” then I would point out that there are many more things that are far more widespread and integrated than any religion: including electricity, telecommunications, metal alloys, farming, etc... As an example: mobile phones were invented by Martin Cooper in the 1970s - 4.68 BILLION people currently carry a mobile phone (between 65 and 70% of the world’s population), this is a significantly higher number than all Abrahamic religion followers combined, greater than half the world’s population, and the relationship humanity has with mobile phones today is significantly higher than with religion. We also don’t know if Abraham existed, we know Martin Cooper existed because he’s still alive today.

That said, few would make the argument that Martin Cooper is one of the most influential people alive today just because he invented mobile phones. So certainly someone with less reach, who may be an invention himself, cannot be called the most influential person in history.
I also hope that people would start paying attention to the real heroes and be thankful to them instead of worrying about a mythical character in a fairytale of distant land.
Religions are becoming irrelevant with each passing day. I wonder how many of them would survive till the end of this century?
 
Likes: specul8
Nov 2018
277
Denmark
#32
[QUOTE="Kamayani, post: 3159063, member: 57143"
Religions are becoming irrelevant with each passing day. I wonder how many of them would survive till the end of this century?[/QUOTE]

I think you are too optimistic, it may well be that many leave the organized religions, but then they change it with some spiritual practice, which ultimately comes from one or another religion.

Then we're back to square one.
 
Mar 2019
1,477
KL
#33
[QUOTE="Kamayani, post: 3159063, member: 57143"
Religions are becoming irrelevant with each passing day. I wonder how many of them would survive till the end of this century?
I think you are too optimistic, it may well be that many leave the organized religions, but then they change it with some spiritual practice, which ultimately comes from one or another religion.

Then we're back to square one.[/QUOTE]

what is your issue with the religions?
 
Apr 2019
294
India
#35
[QUOTE="Kamayani, post: 3159063, member: 57143"
Religions are becoming irrelevant with each passing day. I wonder how many of them would survive till the end of this century?
I think you are too optimistic, it may well be that many leave the organized religions, but then they change it with some spiritual practice, which ultimately comes from one or another religion.

Then we're back to square one.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say that religions would completely disappear. But in this era large number of people understand that life is livable even without following any religion.
Nothing bad in following a spiritual practice but it should be grounded in rationality.
 

Theodoric

Ad Honorem
Mar 2012
2,746
#36
I also hope that people would start paying attention to the real heroes and be thankful to them instead of worrying about a mythical character in a fairytale of distant land.
Religions are becoming irrelevant with each passing day. I wonder how many of them would survive till the end of this century?
I’m actually one of those weirdo irreligious types who does see the historical significance of religion, and it’s value as a cultural influencer. I also find theology (and metaphysics) to be an interesting topic.

My issue was the claim that a figure like Abraham deserves credit for the spread of Christianity and Islam.
 
Likes: Runa
Nov 2018
277
Denmark
#37
I didn't say that religions would completely disappear. But in this era large number of people understand that life is livable even without following any religion.
Nothing bad in following a spiritual practice but it should be grounded in rationality.
I do not care what people believe, they just do not try to persuade / force me to follow their religion.

However, I don't call it rational to believe in something you can't see.

Nevertheless, whom am I throwing the first stone; I believe in both ghosts and nisser ( a sort of Nordic goblin )
 
Likes: Niobe
Jun 2019
29
Southeast Asia
#38
Not at all.

1. The Abrahamic religions are not his inventions. He is a character who made the first covenant with God according to the religions. The theologies and customs of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are much later inventions.

2. He did not spread/influence many. Most of the spreading of Abrahamic religions came about 2000 years after the alleged life of Abraham, and the versions that spread were different religions, they merely used him as a background figure. He is not credited with founding/inventing or converting people to Islam or Christianity, or even Judaism.

3. An argument like “He’s the one that got the ball rolling to half the world’s population” is a poor argument too. For example, Martin Cooper is not a name that many would put to “most influential person in history” - yet modern models of his invention from the 1970s, the mobile phone, has people dedicated to it for hours every single day; that would be considered on the most extreme end of religious devotion. The reach of mobile phones is estimated at 4.68 billion people, 65-70% of human population. We don’t know if Abraham ever existed, we know Martin Cooper existed as he is still alive today.
1 and 2. I never said that Abraham have to invent or spread religion to be influential. It is the same way Confucius is influential in that there is a figurehead and a character to follow. The founding fathers are not the one who create the various cities in the present day USA, are they not influential for the USA then?

3. I guess that you got your data from here

Number of mobile phone users worldwide 2015-2020 | Statista

While I don't have the data for 2019, the article in Wikipedia do cite for 2012-2017.

Major religious groups - Wikipedia

The result for Christianity and Islam combined is 4.2 billion which is 500 million more than mobile phone user in 2015 in that statistic. With the population growth and conversion, it is unknown how much follower of Abrahamic religion today, not including underground believers. The figures for the mobile phone user also probably include user who more than one phone.

Topic: Mobile internet usage worldwide

This one show a 3.7 billion for unique global mobile population in 2018.


On influence, we'll have to wait until the 2070s and see if mobile phone is still in use, then we have to see people willing to die for their phones, have phone company what you should or should not eat or phone company replacing the government. Maybe after that, it will reach a portion of influence the Abrahamic religion had over the centuries.

By the way, I just found out that both Martin Cooper and Joel Engel are Jews.

Jew or Not Jew: Martin Cooper



Sir John Mandeville is not real, yet he influence Columbus and Walter Raleigh in his decision.

The Travels of John Mandeville

Protocols of the Elders of Zion and Mein Kampf are fictional too, yet look at the chaos they create.

According to some people, the Bible is fictional, but we could see how far it influence people in history.
 

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,424
Florania
#39
He almost certainly didn't exist(in any capacity unlike say Jesus) and I think that should be a requirement.

And Jesus and his followers making Christianity popular by spreading it would be more responsible for the influence of "Abrahamic" religions. Given what the OP thinks gives Abraham that distinction I think the honor would go to St Paul. Muhammad's spreading of Islam in the brief span it was spread also is pretty impressive by that standard.
I personally gave up the inquiry for any "facts" under the Book of Yahweh; I learn far from Sapiens: A Brief History than that fictional (and hardly the finest fiction) around.
 

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,489
India
#40
I think we have to determine which Roman influence that really aid Christianity in spreading.

1. The ease of idea moving around the Roman Empire.

2. Roman state support.

I would say 1 is important, however 2 is not vital for Christianity to spread in Europe. There are already many Christian before Constantine legalize it.

Also if Christianity spread because of the Roman Empire, wouldn't it be a point in favor of Christianity?

An empire that are a foreign occupier, both in culture and religion, and persecute Christian, then turn into a supporter which declare any other religion illegal.

That would be crazy, it is like saying Saudi Arabia turn Hindu and force any non-Hindu to become Hindu.
Christianity that spread to North Europe was Roman Catholic Church. Even Orthodox of Eastern Europe and North Africa was a split from Catholic Church. So the modern version of Christianity even after the fall of Romans is the Greeco-Roman influenced religion.
 

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