Is Albania the least remarkable country in Europe?

Decembrist

Ad Honorem
Mar 2013
2,689
the Nile to the Euphrates
#41
George Castriot Skanderbeg was a hero, indeed.

But for forty posts no one has mentioned Mother Teresa? I do not consider her to be a decent person, neither I think she had deserved to be canonized, but she was an influential character for sure.
 

Shaheen

Ad Honorem
May 2011
2,529
Sweden
#42
And that's the whole point. OP is asking about the country, not the people. So do then these achievenents count or nay?
Hm I suppose not, although there must be a reason why Albanian states never were more dominant? I would imagine their tribal structure and inter-religious nature meant establishing a common identity and unity was more difficult for them as compared to their neighbors. Having said that its a small nation as well. Estonia, Latvia, Slovakia are similar sized nation with little nation level impact on European history.
 
Likes: Futurist
Nov 2018
22
London
#43
Most notably during the Koprulu era, when successive Grand Viziers belonged to the Albanian Koprulu family. Then there's Muhammad Ali of Egypt. Also was there not an Albanian Pope at one point? Plenty of significant characters in European history belong to the Albanian ethnic group, although as you pointed out they did not seem to always work for the benefit of their own ethnic group.
That ali guy is not albanian because his name isn't. Real albanians have albanian names, speak albanian (at least a bit) and look albanian. If he felt the need to be a leader for egypt then he isn't albanian
 
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Nov 2018
22
London
#44
Many influential people in the Ottoman Empire were of Albanian origin, though. That's gotta count for something. Granted they didn't work for the benefit of their own cultural and ethnic background.
Shouldn't be holding these in high regard, they commited genocides against their own people. Kastrioti would slice their heads off at first opportunity
 
Jan 2017
44
Germany
#45
It is important to be precise about what you mean "least remarkable".
Least remarkable according to their history, according to their distinct ethnicity (culture, language) or about their modern status in our era?
Before you give me more information about which values should we consider to call Albania remarkable or not I would like to present some history.

As long as we are talking about Albanians that means we are talking about the ethnic group appeared in history to be called so in first year of 11 century. Their connection with the Illyrians is an other topic which is interesting and remarkable and I could explain more later.
The first appearance of the Albanians is recorded in 1001 by Skilices Kedronosi referring to Patric David Arjanitasi a member of an Albanian royal family while 49 years later we find an Albanian in a high level of the Byzantine empires' Army called "Komiskorti". In the same century we see Michael Attaleiates (1040), Anna Comnena (1096) and a Bulgarian text to refer to Albanians as an ethnic group. The flowing centuries made a more clear view of Albanians and shew us their place in the society of the Empire during their significant part in trade and as a separate authority with the Principality of Arbanon (1190).
In the 14th century their political and strategical success kept going in the hands of rulers such us Karl Thopia, John Spata and Perer Losha ruling territories of Albania and Epirus. Moreover we see Albanians to leave they offer in arts and more with the example of Gjoni ("the painter of Dyrrachium" 1388), Andrea Suma, Viktor Karpacio, Mark Bazaiti and Jan Kukuzeli.
The 15th century and the Ottoman invasion which covered the Balkan peninsula, presented Albanians as the first successful rebels against the Ottomans leaded by Skanderbeg which kept and maintained the Albanian territories independent for decades.
The following centuries found Albanians to lose their shine as their territory loses importance in the empire and a big percentage of the population assimilated to the Ottoman culture and religion. However a great part of Albanians remained in their christian religion and in the name of religion gave notable fights. The most well known comes in the 19th century by the Albanians of the Epirus and Peloponnese which in collaboration with the Greeks, revolted successfully against the Ottoman Empire and resulting in the creation of the independent Greece.
In the beginning of 20th century and containing the sense of nationalism, Albanians revolted as an ethnic group successfully in the end of 1912 expelling the Ottomans and in the next year they will be widely recognized as an independent country. In Balkan Wars and in both World Wars, Albania will be unarmed and full of casualties. In Cold War Albania takes east side. However after the collapse of communism, Albanians take the side of the West and in 1999 Albanians of Kosovo gain their independence against Serbia with the help of NATO. In this century we see the Albanian contrition in the World by examples such Hasan Masurica (the inventor of the poplar plane), Mother Teresa (named Saint by the Catholic church), Ferid Murad (Nobel price winner of Medicine) and Ismail Kadare (author whose poets are being taught in many literature universities around the Europe).

Taking all these facts into consideration, I admire how the Albanians, with such a small population, achieved to survive (as an ethnic group and culture) for so many centuries in foreign empires and succeed to appear in the maps of nowadays without allies and with so many wars against them.
For these reasons, I definitely can't say Albanians are the least remarkable in Europe. At least from the historical point of view.
 
Likes: Futurist
Jan 2017
1,205
Durham
#46
It is important to be precise about what you mean "least remarkable".
Least remarkable according to their history, according to their distinct ethnicity (culture, language) or about their modern status in our era?
Before you give me more information about which values should we consider to call Albania remarkable or not I would like to present some history.

As long as we are talking about Albanians that means we are talking about the ethnic group appeared in history to be called so in first year of 11 century. Their connection with the Illyrians is an other topic which is interesting and remarkable and I could explain more later.
The first appearance of the Albanians is recorded in 1001 by Skilices Kedronosi referring to Patric David Arjanitasi a member of an Albanian royal family while 49 years later we find an Albanian in a high level of the Byzantine empires' Army called "Komiskorti". In the same century we see Michael Attaleiates (1040), Anna Comnena (1096) and a Bulgarian text to refer to Albanians as an ethnic group. The flowing centuries made a more clear view of Albanians and shew us their place in the society of the Empire during their significant part in trade and as a separate authority with the Principality of Arbanon (1190).
In the 14th century their political and strategical success kept going in the hands of rulers such us Karl Thopia, John Spata and Perer Losha ruling territories of Albania and Epirus. Moreover we see Albanians to leave they offer in arts and more with the example of Gjoni ("the painter of Dyrrachium" 1388), Andrea Suma, Viktor Karpacio, Mark Bazaiti and Jan Kukuzeli.
The 15th century and the Ottoman invasion which covered the Balkan peninsula, presented Albanians as the first successful rebels against the Ottomans leaded by Skanderbeg which kept and maintained the Albanian territories independent for decades.
The following centuries found Albanians to lose their shine as their territory loses importance in the empire and a big percentage of the population assimilated to the Ottoman culture and religion. However a great part of Albanians remained in their christian religion and in the name of religion gave notable fights. The most well known comes in the 19th century by the Albanians of the Epirus and Peloponnese which in collaboration with the Greeks, revolted successfully against the Ottoman Empire and resulting in the creation of the independent Greece.
In the beginning of 20th century and containing the sense of nationalism, Albanians revolted as an ethnic group successfully in the end of 1912 expelling the Ottomans and in the next year they will be widely recognized as an independent country. In Balkan Wars and in both World Wars, Albania will be unarmed and full of casualties. In Cold War Albania takes east side. However after the collapse of communism, Albanians take the side of the West and in 1999 Albanians of Kosovo gain their independence against Serbia with the help of NATO. In this century we see the Albanian contrition in the World by examples such Hasan Masurica (the inventor of the poplar plane), Mother Teresa (named Saint by the Catholic church), Ferid Murad (Nobel price winner of Medicine) and Ismail Kadare (author whose poets are being taught in many literature universities around the Europe).

Taking all these facts into consideration, I admire how the Albanians, with such a small population, achieved to survive (as an ethnic group and culture) for so many centuries in foreign empires and succeed to appear in the maps of nowadays without allies and with so many wars against them.
For these reasons, I definitely can't say Albanians are the least remarkable in Europe. At least from the historical point of view.
'Good post that, mate. 'Enjoyed reading it.

Nations are only successful because they have certain geographical advantages, e.g. Britain surrounded by water and with an abundance of coal, Germany and France with huge populations.

Just because a country isn't known for a wealth of engineering or literature, it doesn't mean it lacks a remarkable history.

After all, trade generates ideas, and those countries that are fortunate enough to have the geographical conditions to facilitate trade are always going to be commercially more successful and that in turn will generate ideas and discovery.
 
Nov 2018
22
London
#47
It is important to be precise about what you mean "least remarkable".
Least remarkable according to their history, according to their distinct ethnicity (culture, language) or about their modern status in our era?
Before you give me more information about which values should we consider to call Albania remarkable or not I would like to present some history.

As long as we are talking about Albanians that means we are talking about the ethnic group appeared in history to be called so in first year of 11 century. Their connection with the Illyrians is an other topic which is interesting and remarkable and I could explain more later.
The first appearance of the Albanians is recorded in 1001 by Skilices Kedronosi referring to Patric David Arjanitasi a member of an Albanian royal family while 49 years later we find an Albanian in a high level of the Byzantine empires' Army called "Komiskorti". In the same century we see Michael Attaleiates (1040), Anna Comnena (1096) and a Bulgarian text to refer to Albanians as an ethnic group. The flowing centuries made a more clear view of Albanians and shew us their place in the society of the Empire during their significant part in trade and as a separate authority with the Principality of Arbanon (1190).
In the 14th century their political and strategical success kept going in the hands of rulers such us Karl Thopia, John Spata and Perer Losha ruling territories of Albania and Epirus. Moreover we see Albanians to leave they offer in arts and more with the example of Gjoni ("the painter of Dyrrachium" 1388), Andrea Suma, Viktor Karpacio, Mark Bazaiti and Jan Kukuzeli.
The 15th century and the Ottoman invasion which covered the Balkan peninsula, presented Albanians as the first successful rebels against the Ottomans leaded by Skanderbeg which kept and maintained the Albanian territories independent for decades.
The following centuries found Albanians to lose their shine as their territory loses importance in the empire and a big percentage of the population assimilated to the Ottoman culture and religion. However a great part of Albanians remained in their christian religion and in the name of religion gave notable fights. The most well known comes in the 19th century by the Albanians of the Epirus and Peloponnese which in collaboration with the Greeks, revolted successfully against the Ottoman Empire and resulting in the creation of the independent Greece.
In the beginning of 20th century and containing the sense of nationalism, Albanians revolted as an ethnic group successfully in the end of 1912 expelling the Ottomans and in the next year they will be widely recognized as an independent country. In Balkan Wars and in both World Wars, Albania will be unarmed and full of casualties. In Cold War Albania takes east side. However after the collapse of communism, Albanians take the side of the West and in 1999 Albanians of Kosovo gain their independence against Serbia with the help of NATO. In this century we see the Albanian contrition in the World by examples such Hasan Masurica (the inventor of the poplar plane), Mother Teresa (named Saint by the Catholic church), Ferid Murad (Nobel price winner of Medicine) and Ismail Kadare (author whose poets are being taught in many literature universities around the Europe).

Taking all these facts into consideration, I admire how the Albanians, with such a small population, achieved to survive (as an ethnic group and culture) for so many centuries in foreign empires and succeed to appear in the maps of nowadays without allies and with so many wars against them.
For these reasons, I definitely can't say Albanians are the least remarkable in Europe. At least from the historical point of view.
OK, not a bad post but a typical post about albanians.

First of all Albanese was the name given to us by the Romans way before 1000 AD. Alba = white in Latin. Romanized maybe Christian? (in their eyes) ilirians = albanese. The Romans had many wars with the ilirians and maybe decided to change the name of the people due to them being more civilised now under the roman empire however a lot/most of albanians/ilirians would have lived in the mountains having nothing to do with the romans. Another theory could be the albanese was how they identified our ilirian tribe because apparently there was a few different ones though I would guess that these were what became the ghegs, tosks and dardans of today. Names of countries and groups of people have changed many times throughout history. Greeks were called hellenes for most of their history, only recently "Greeks". Also, albanians call themselves shqiptars, albanian is an international name that was given to us by others.

Another point is albanians were never super religious and their language is much older than christianity. They never fought for christianity, they fought for themselves and their freedom but may have understood that byzantine was a better empire than ottoman, for one they didn't kidnap young boys or rape Christian women just because of her religion. When Kastrioti defeated the ottoman countless times he carried the albanian flag not a painting of jesus christ or a cross. He had ties with Italy and friends there and sure, he was protecting "Western" civilisation but most of all he cared about HIS blood and moved to Albania as soon as he backstabbed the ottoman who kidnapped him when he was a kid as they cowardly did to many many others. Kastrioti had the balls to put a stop to the atrocity the ottoman were causing and if "Christian" Italy had helped him more like they promised the ottoman would have been wiped out but they were no longer the once fierce Romans they were now cowardly christianised men who pray instead of fight. It wasn't jesus christ who was protecting them but a real hero, Kastrioti, and his army. With blood, sweat and tears.

Also, if you knew the reason for the spread of christianity across Europe you will find that it was to bring the entire roman empire together under a set blanket of rules everyone can accept and worship, a bit like government and law of today. As time went by everyone became more and more brainwashed by the image of jesus (which was a wrong one anyway because he never looked european) whilst the Jews themselves who lived alongside him knew he was nothing more than a teacher, he had NOTHING at all to do with god and in their bible which is what christianity is based on jesus was saying things that go against everything they believed in such as a man claiming to be related to god, that's why he needed to die.

In terms of world war 2, hitler and the nazis identified the Albanians as indo Europeans along with Italians. Mussolini claimed albania to be part of the Italian empire due to historical and even genetic ties. They pushed for a greater albania and the nazis created an SS division of skanderbeg for ethnic albanians. The nazis saw Serbs as inferior races (untermensch) and wanted to wipe them out along with the Jews due to infiltrating Europe and in particular Germany, he also wanted rid of the romani across the balkans because they also are not indo european. During this brief period Hitler wanted albanians to kill Serbs above them and armed them to do so, had Hitler won it is possible that Serbs wouldn't exist in Europe today not just the Jews/romani/blacks etc and the disabled. Also, you missed the part where albania became the first official atheist country under enver hoxha and he destroyed thousands of mosques and churches, replacing them with sports arenas and facilities. This is a big part of albanian history, just a shame that he left so many places of worship behind that no one visits.
 
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Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
5,019
Netherlands
#48
Another point is albanians were never super religious and their language is much older than christianity. They never fought for christianity, they fought for themselves and their freedom but may have understood that byzantine was a better empire than ottoman, for one they didn't kidnap young boys or rape Christian women just because of her religion. When Kastrioti defeated the ottoman countless times he carried the albanian flag not a painting of jesus christ or a cross. He had ties with Italy and friends there and sure, he was protecting "Western" civilisation but most of all he cared about HIS blood and moved to Albania as soon as he backstabbed the ottoman who kidnapped him when he was a kid as they cowardly did to many many others. Kastrioti had the balls to put a stop to the atrocity the ottoman were causing and if "Christian" Italy had helped him more like they promised the ottoman would have been wiped out but they were no longer the once fierce Romans they were now cowardly christianised men who pray instead of fight. It wasn't jesus christ who was protecting them but a real hero, Kastrioti, and his army. With blood, sweat and tears.
Do you know if this story is true? An Albanian bishop had condemned decapitating dead Turks on the grounds that that was cowardice and only alive Turkish soldiers should be decapitated.
Sounds like one of those stories, but you never know.
 
Likes: RealAlbanian