Is China destined to become a superpower?

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,856
India
To answer the original question from my own perspective, China is already a superpower, and arguably a colonial one too. What isn't inevitable though, is the oft predicted event of China becoming the dominant hyperpower, similar to the US from 1991-c2010. China has shown that it can rise to the top of the pecking order, then collapse. With China riven with corruption, a racist government intolerant of ethic and linguistic difference and corruption so vast it's probably more chronic than even Russia, there's every chance that China will collapse again. Furthermore, totalitarian governments like China's always run the risk of a calamity, whether it be economic, military or environmental, destroying its legitimacy and leading to its overthrow. What will China do if it falls into deep recession and there are tens of millions of angry unemployed youth from the privileged castes? Or, if it gets onto a skirmish in the South China sea and loses or backs down? Or, what if its environmental degradation poisons the water supplies to cities like Beijing and Shanghai and deaths start to happen? There's also the fact that China is already unstable. We can see evidence of this today, with Taiwan moving closer to independence, Hong Kong in open revolt and the Naziesque measures that are being used in Xinjian to keep people in line.
90% Chinese are Han Chinese, who gives strong base to Chinese nationalism, so its highly unlikely that China will ever collapse even if there is resentment among China's ethnic minorities. Even most of the ethnic minority provinces are dominated by Han Chinese majority including Xinjiang.
 

robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,169
Lisbon, Portugal
90% Chinese are Han Chinese, who gives strong base to Chinese nationalism, so its highly unlikely that China will ever collapse even if there is resentment among China's ethnic minorities. Even most of the ethnic minority provinces are dominated by Han Chinese majority including Xinjiang.
The concept of "Han Chinese" is not comparable to other ethnicities around the world, neither the Han identity can be defined by modern European standards of what an "ethnicity" is characterized. There is a lot of cultural and linguistically variations among many sub-groups of the Han nationality - a Han Chinese from Northeast China can be as culturally and linguistically dissimilar from a Han Chinese from Guangdong, as a Belgian-French can be different from a Romanian.

Even with that explanation, separatism in China is not really an issue, unless you are referring to specific ethnic minorities that historically have been involved and in more contact with other world systems. rather than being always included in the Chinese cultural sphere. Uyghurs were always connected to the wider Islamic central Asian world and Tibet was always relatively isolated from the outside. Other Chinese minorities didn't share a similar experience as the Uyghurs and Tibetans had.
 

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,856
India
The concept of "Han Chinese" is not comparable to other ethnicities around the world, neither the Han identity can be defined by modern European standards of what an "ethnicity" is characterized. There is a lot of cultural and linguistically variations among many sub-groups of the Han nationality - a Han Chinese from Northeast China can be as culturally and linguistically dissimilar from a Han Chinese from Guangdong, as a Belgian-French can be different from a Romanian.

Even with that explanation, separatism in China is not really an issue, unless you are referring to specific ethnic minorities that historically have been involved and in more contact with other world systems. rather than being always included in the Chinese cultural sphere. Uyghurs were always connected to the wider Islamic central Asian world and Tibet was always relatively isolated from the outside. Other Chinese minorities didn't share a similar experience as the Uyghurs and Tibetans had.
I know Han Chinese are a group several linguistic groups and even Northern Han vs Southern Han but still a sense of common Chinese history and unified Empire would be strong among them vis a vis ethnic minorities.
 

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,602
Florania
no, not really


i have no negative opinion on the girl.

but she has to be told, only with learning, she can save earth. protesting will not do.

however, she was encouraged to protest.

the problem lays there some values the speech as it has power, and manipulates the speech.

some has been addicted to it.
Bertrand Russell’s saying: “Conquer the world by intelligence, and not merely by slavishly subdued by the terror
that comes from it” in Why I Am Not a Christian is rather inspiring.
Only with learning and knowledge we can effect changes.
Some claim to take advantage of her Asperger’s Syndrome as a sympathy factor, and this is somewhat
problematic.
Note: we have a few fellow members with Asperger’s Syndrome here.
 

heylouis

Ad Honorem
Apr 2013
6,501
China
.....
People who have started their businesses in China have told me that they got their businesses stolen by the Chinese government. One is from Korea and the other is from Macau (originally from Singapore). The one from Korea said that he had to leave his business after China suddenly raised the tax on his company. And they told me that they couldn't take most of their money out of China. I heard that another Korean had to leave his factory in China because his workers wouldn't stop striking. .....
let me tell you what happens for foreign capitals in china.

decades ago, when china is very lack of wealth, especially lack of the foreign exchange reserves, foreign companies got so called super-national privileges.
that means, foreign companies gained significantly decreased tax, almost free land supply and so on....
as time went, foreign capitals are no longer exclusively competitive.
china is grateful for the contribution on development from foreign capitals. but you know, it is 2019, and tax of foreign companies just started to return normal.

that "raised tax" is only a returning back to normal.

and among foreign companies in china, korean companies, no offense, is known to pay salary less than ...for example, japanese companies. that is why the lower rank workers are not happy.

china stole what, some examples of korean company? i know only incorrect strategy on development leading to falling apart of korean industry, for example, the LCD screens.
 
Dec 2018
4
Edinburgh, Scotland, UK.
among the jokable and laughable points, the above reaches a peak

i have to be not hesitate to criticize the west in general on environments.

previously, i observe that posters proposing Greta Thunberg to be a person of year.

well, this is the environment protector of western style:




while this is our chinese socialism youngs:



i don't know.
whatever, as long as nobody sell western mind set to me, i am fine. sell your idea in your place.
any one do that to me, get away plz.
I have my reservations about Greta Thurnberg, and I am worried about her mental wellbeing, but I do respect the fact that she cares about the environment and I rejoice in the fact that she's in a position to organise a mass protest movement. Something she wouldn't be able to do in the PRC. If you want to debate my opinion on the PRC, I'd relish it, but please, dinnae just come up with nationalist propaganda photographs, it's insulting. I mean, being serious for a moment, do you really think the above is how most Chinese children are? What're Chinese children in rural Manchuria, or those in the camps in East Turkestan doing? I sincerely doubt they're planting trees. I also find it incomprehensible that you seem to have objected to my point about land and environmental degradation in China, this is very well documented, including by the Chinese government, and it continues still. So, just come on man, be sensible.
 

heylouis

Ad Honorem
Apr 2013
6,501
China
....I rejoice in the fact that she's in a position to organise a mass protest movement. Something she wouldn't be able to do in the PRC. If you want to debate my opinion on the PRC, I'd relish it, but please, dinnae just come up with nationalist propaganda photographs, it's insulting. .....
plz, nobody actually cares to compare our (i am chinese) protecting tree movement to west, *PROVIDED* nobody insult us with *false claims*

it is your started to insult us with unsupported claims, so i have very much reason to believe you are being nationalist propaganda. you are not being any less of nationalist propaganda simply because you put west as a comparison model, but not a single western nation.

if you just came to find china is photoing plant trees for propaganda, you are making mistakes, just as others of your points.

no, i am not debating your opinions.
they are supportless, and thus worthy not debating.

for example,
land and environmental degradation in China, this is very well documented, including by the Chinese government, and it continues still.
1. old news

2. happened anywhere for development during a certain level.
disallowing pollution and disallowing C emission is one way the west intend to kill the opportunity of development of the developing countries
just remember how much west polluted at the development level in the old days.
time is progressing? no, unless west shares its technology on developed green techs and support with money, it is meaningless to assert time is progressing. because obviously, those techs are still absent in developing countries, and can only be obtained by development on themselves, during which pollution is supposed to happen.

3. whether pollution is a *lasting* problem depends on whether a nation intend to solve the problem, starting from, acknowledge human (our nation itself) is partially responsible for the change of climate. (i have every doubt how wide that is accepted in west, if it is indeed well accepted, there would be no space for the girl to protest. that is my understanding) (west has made a lot of meaningless debates on whether human activities dominated the effects on change of climate, so assuming human activities contributed minor parts, that justifies human to watch the climate to change?)
we are responsible for our own environment.
there are things *a* nation can hardly change, that is global climate. we are doing better, from individuals to government, THAN others, on notable aspects

4. most importantly, in no way, those have anything to do with what you intend to claim "environmental, destroying its legitimacy and leading to its overthrow", "environmental degradation poisons the water supplies to cities like Beijing and Shanghai and deaths start to happen"

claiming 'china do has environmental problems' does justify 'china government is corruption, a racist' or 'china government legitimacy is in problem'
you don't become correct in any way just because you link the two sub-sentences together.
don't being illogical


plus, as stated, i have no negative opinion on Greta Thurnberg
it is the problem of those who encourage her to protesting made the mistake.
protesting, despite is painted as a novel and unique feature of west, does not automatically solve problems, and is not guaranteed to be helpful to human society.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ichon
Aug 2015
1,888
Los Angeles
The concept of "Han Chinese" is not comparable to other ethnicities around the world, neither the Han identity can be defined by modern European standards of what an "ethnicity" is characterized. There is a lot of cultural and linguistically variations among many sub-groups of the Han nationality - a Han Chinese from Northeast China can be as culturally and linguistically dissimilar from a Han Chinese from Guangdong, as a Belgian-French can be different from a Romanian.

Even with that explanation, separatism in China is not really an issue, unless you are referring to specific ethnic minorities that historically have been involved and in more contact with other world systems. rather than being always included in the Chinese cultural sphere. Uyghurs were always connected to the wider Islamic central Asian world and Tibet was always relatively isolated from the outside. Other Chinese minorities didn't share a similar experience as the Uyghurs and Tibetans had.
You claim there are linguistically variations, linguistically aren't the Chinese language following the same format?

I took my linguistics about 12 years ago but I do remember even if the language sounds different linguistically if you want to say they are dissimilar, you are going to have to show how the language in the Lu region are different from the Yue region in its structure. Given they are spoken form of the same written language, I am pretty sure you cannot do that.

Then if you claim that it is culturally different, you too would have to show how they are culturally different. If you are saying someone from Shandong eats differently from someone in the south, sure, but if you are going to say they are culturall different? Culturally different how?

I am not arguing about minorities. You are making the claim that the sub-group of Han people are DIFFERENT. So I like to know different how.
 
Sep 2016
570
天下
I took my linguistics about 12 years ago but I do remember even if the language sounds different linguistically if you want to say they are dissimilar, you are going to have to show how the language in the Lu region are different from the Yue region in its structure. Given they are spoken form of the same written language, I am pretty sure you cannot do that.
Umm, what? There are major differences in lexycon, syntax and phonology between all major dialectal groupings.

I also have no idea what you mean by saying that they are spoken forms of one written language. This sentence makes zero sense, as the written language is the reflection of the spoken tongue, never the other way around. That the standard, formal language is uniform is normal, as it's necessary for interetence-less communication. However, spoken vernacular is a completely different beast.

What's more, differences in phonology are typically the feature on which basis language and dialectal groupings are based on. Lexycon is the part that's the most prone to variation, while syntax tends to be more resilent. Changes in morphology on the other hand are quite often a result of phonological processes occuring in the language.

You cannot just disregard linguistic differences by saying that the written language is the same. But even then, different dialects use their own grammatical particles and structures. Cantonese also has its own written standard, separate from the Mandarin one. Sichuanese and Shanghaiese have special characters not used in Mandarin at all, while Min dialects have readings which cannot be reliably connected to Old Chinese and most likely reflect some substratum languages.

And nail to the coffin, the ineligibility even inside dialectal groupings is quite low. Especially among highly divergent Min dialects. Shanghaiese and Wenzhouese are not kutually inteligible, neither are Cantonese and Toishanese. Mandarin dialects ate quite uniform, but differences between persons from Nanjing, Chengdu, Xining, and Beijing are outright noticeable, unless they speak perfect Putonghua.