Is China really less free than the West?

Status
Closed

heavenlykaghan

Ad Honorem
Mar 2012
4,447
Just to be clear, are you claiming that the US has political prisoners? If you are, please provide some names of these people and their crimes.
No, I am implying that the Patriot Act allows the government to seize a person without due process if they deem him to be a threat to the country. As for people punished solely for political crimes in regard to security, does Edward Snowden ring a bell?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sundiata1

heavenlykaghan

Ad Honorem
Mar 2012
4,447
When was Nanking and when was the axis alliance?
In any case that is not my point at all. Certain Japanese groups (iirc the ex-mayor of Tokyo among them) still consider it just propaganda. Just because they call it anti-Japanese propaganda doesn't make it any less true.

Unrelated question: Is it Nanjing or Nanking?
Whether certain Japanese groups consider it propaganda is not relevant. The point is that Nanking is recorded in multiple sources, many of which wasn't anti-Japanese at all nor has the incentive to attack Japan. On the other hand, the examples that you've debated others over are clearly government funded propaganda machines. You can certainly call anything propaganda, and that includes you denouncing Chinese news as propaganda; doesn't make it true either; it works both ways, but you need actual evidence to prove a connection or an incentive for propaganda, and the opposing side has already provided that, while you haven't for those so called anti-Japanese propaganda groups.
 
Last edited:

Menshevik

Ad Honorem
Dec 2012
9,355
here
Tell that to Assange or Snowden
To you and the other posters who are citing Snowden as a political prisoner, he's charged with espionage right? Would you also consider Aldrich Ames, Robert Hansen and the Rosenbergs as political prisoners?
 

Menshevik

Ad Honorem
Dec 2012
9,355
here
No, I am implying that the Patriot Act allows the government to seize a person without due process if they deem him to be a threat to the country. As for people punished solely for political crimes in regard to security, does Edward Snowden ring a bell?
Fair enough. But the situation in the US (however distasteful it may be) isn't comparable to the situation in China. Not even in the same ball park.
 

heylouis

Ad Honorem
Apr 2013
6,547
China
confusingly ai weiwei is mentioned.
it is not allowed to show your sexual organs in publics here in china.

it is also not allowed to escape from submitting tax due to commercial activities. when the money is huge in value, jailing is expected.

i have difficulties to see showing off one's d*k as human activitist
 
Jul 2019
141
Ghana
Fair enough. But the situation in the US (however distasteful it may be) isn't comparable to the situation in China. Not even in the same ball park.
What about the situation outside of the US? The USA operates an estimated 100 "black sites", secret prisons, around the world. Total number of captives in these locations is impossible to estimate. They're held without due process, and often not even the family knows where these people are. America does in fact make people disappear. It just doesn't usually do it in America. Some people think they're just terrorists being held so it doesn't matter how they're treated, but there are plenty of examples of innocent people that have been and probably continue to be kept in such places, including ironically, innocent Chinese Uighurs in Guantanamo Bay...!

I also don't think that this comparison between freedom in America vs freedom in China, can be made without acknowledging the situation in areas that are or have been under American military control, or even those that are occupied by American proxies . The Chinese don't have such a lethal track record with regard to their international affairs, the way US has in the quest to spread their brand of democracy. A lot of people died including journalists simply doing their job, and a lot of people disappeared. A lot of Americans would like to wash their hands of what happened and pretend they didn't have anything to do with it, but the people in Iraq and Afghanistan and even Pakistan and Yemen don't have such a short memory.
 
Jul 2019
141
Ghana
To you and the other posters who are citing Snowden as a political prisoner, he's charged with espionage right? Would you also consider Aldrich Ames, Robert Hansen and the Rosenbergs as political prisoners?
The examples you cite were spying for a foreign government (Soviets). Are you saying that Snowden was in service of a foreign government when he made his disclosures? People who defend Snowden would argue that he blew the whistle for the benefit of the American people, not a foreign government.
 

Menshevik

Ad Honorem
Dec 2012
9,355
here
The examples you cite were spying for a foreign government (Soviets). Are you saying that Snowden was in service of a foreign government when he made his disclosures? People who defend Snowden would argue that he blew the whistle for the benefit of the American people, not a foreign government.
Nope. Actually what I'm saying is:
To you and the other posters who are citing Snowden as a political prisoner, he's charged with espionage right? Would you also consider Aldrich Ames, Robert Hansen and the Rosenbergs as political prisoners?
 
Status
Closed