Is death more welcome than perpetual torture?

May 2013
1,721
The abode of the lord of the north
#81
Because it is supposed that when you leave this world you remain "fixed" in the habit you acquired during this life, and repentance is no more possible. We don't believe that in the next world your ontological condition will be the same as in this world and you would be able to change as you can do it here, that it is not a temporal age like this one. As father Cleopa, a man for whom I have a deep reverence, beautifully wrote in one of his books (The Truth of Our Faith), "[...] the wounds incurred from sin that are not healed in this life through the appropriate repentance will remain infected eternally in the presence of God".
That is your belief, which holds you back from committing suicide, which according to this logic, results in your eternal damnation/ suffering. Okay! Thanks for sharing your view!
 
May 2013
1,721
The abode of the lord of the north
#82
II don't think it's reasonable to take that meaning. I read it as being separate from being tortured.

As far as I'm able to tell, counsellors, and physicians of all kinds will always try to help deal with the depression of anyone presenting with those symptoms.

Assisted suicide is not available to depressed persons.

A practical reason is that the suicidally depressed person does not usually have a death wish. Such a person is in severe emotional pain, and not thinking rationally. All he/she wants is the pain to cease, but can't think of any other way . OF COURSE there are exceptions, but at the time, health professionals will err on the side of caution. In fact I think they are legally obliged to do so.

That was the approach taken by "Lifeline", a voluntary telephone counselling service for whom I worked for a couple of years, at night, after work..
Have you counselled people with such tendencies?
 
May 2013
1,721
The abode of the lord of the north
#84
"society as a whole takes the position of the psychologist/friend rather than of the patient"

. As a life long sufferer of common or garden variety depression (over about 45 years, off and on) I 'm grateful that is the case. Were it not so,I would have died over 30 years ago.

. I argue that 'simple' depression** is a short term condition, even if it last years .Suicide is a permanent solution.

Yes, I do have a problem with society making decisions for the individual, UNLESS the person is incapable. Hard to know exactly where to draw the line.

** as opposed to say bipolar disorder.
But bipolar disorder is not normal depression extended to perpetuity right? It involves mood-swings and related complex behavioral phenomena.
 
Oct 2013
6,261
Planet Nine, Oregon
#86
Lol, yeah! Even I don't wish to live after I see my family perish.
I've often felt that way too, especially as an only child. But, if one can find a reason to live -- then there is a reason to live! I think helping dogs and other animals would be a worthwhile reason to go on. And maybe art. At least I can die knowing that we are not alone in the universe and that is a great gift.
 
May 2013
1,721
The abode of the lord of the north
#87
Send him/her to a therapist.
That's what we were discussing. On who all should be allowed to die by themselves. Because a mentally ill guy will want to kill himself, because he thinks his condition is chronic and there is no way to escape the pain. A counselor or a friend, on the other hand, knows that the situation is just temporary (hopefully) and letting him commit an irreversible act such as suicide is plain foolishness.

So the question is how much sanity one should have within him for the right to suicide to rest with himself?
 
May 2013
1,721
The abode of the lord of the north
#88
I've often felt that way too, especially as an only child. But, if one can find a reason to live -- then there is a reason to live! I think helping dogs and other animals would be a worthwhile reason to go on. And maybe art. At least I can die knowing that we are not alone in the universe and that is a great gift.
I knew a person who lived upto his hundreds. He was pretty healthy to his last days as well, he could travel by public transport in such a crowded country as in India, so yeah pretty healthy. In his life, he witnessed deaths of his two wives he had taken at different points in his life, several children as well. While in his final years, one of his grand-children also passed-away. I felt sympathy for him that he had to see even his grand-child perish. But he participated in his last-rites and funeral enthusiastically; apparently he had developed a strong matter-of-factness towards death. Result of living to ripe old age. Perhaps that would happen with me as well. Who knows, I'm just in my twenties.
 
Likes: Todd Feinman
Oct 2015
1,061
India
#89
According to the teaching of the Church suicide is like murder (i.e. the unjust taking of a life), with the difference that a murderer can repent and be forgiven while a self-murderer can't. This is why the Church forbids burial services, memorial services etc. for those who commit suicide being responsible for their deeds (i.e. not insane).
Religions have different attitude to suicide.

Jain religion allows committing suicide by slowly giving up food and water in case of aged monks & followers. It is called Sallekhana.

You may be aware that Jainism is a religion with highest reverence for life. Non-violence and non-killing are its fundamental / core principles. Jain monks walk barefoot so that insects in soil dont get killed. They, of course, never eat any animal flesh.

Among Hindus also I have read a few references to voluntarily accepting death when very old. This was an outlier practice in ancient Hinduism, but Hindus do not practice it now, however, Jains Monks still do.

Now modern law governs the practice of suicide and assisted suicide. To that extent religion's role is cut-down.

Sallekhana - Wikipedia
 
Oct 2015
1,061
India
#90

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