Is feminism ruining the West?

Jan 2014
2,577
Westmorland
Indeed, these are single issue parties and Farage is really a singe issue poltician; but I think you greatly underestimate the political skills of a man who has been able to push through Brexit against the establishment consensus, according to which anyone who supports it must be a fruitcake or loony
I don't think that is, or ever has been, the establishment consensus. The Conservative party has been tearing itself apart over Europe for virtually all of my life. Given the dominance which the Conservative party has had over British politics since the War, it's difficult to argue that profound disagreement over Europe hasn't lain at the very heart of the establishment for decades. If we add to that the various ancestors of UKIP (possibly starting with the Referendum Party back in the late 70s) and the longstanding ambivalence (verging on hostility) of the hard left to what they perceive as a globalist capitalist experiment, I don't think it is fair to argue that there is genuinely an establishment position.

it wouldn't have happened without him, and no one else would be able to start a party from scratch and having it reaching the current level of support within weeks.
If I am guilty of underestimating him, I think you may be guilty of the opposite. Without giving it much thought, Johnson could have done the same had he been minded to do so.
 
Jan 2014
2,577
Westmorland
But there's very little difference between their positions.

Why is one an extremist and the other not?
There may not be much difference on their views on a hard Brexit, but favouring a hard Brexit isn't in and of itself an extremist position. Rees-Mogg comes across as an old school Thatcherite (which may or may not be accurate), but he isn't a populist tub-thumper like Farage.
 
Aug 2010
16,205
Welsh Marches
I don't think that is, or ever has been, the establishment consensus. The Conservative party has been tearing itself apart over Europe for virtually all of my life. Given the dominance which the Conservative party has had over British politics since the War, it's difficult to argue that profound disagreement over Europe hasn't lain at the very heart of the establishment for decades. If we add to that the various ancestors of UKIP (possibly starting with the Referendum Party back in the late 70s) and the longstanding ambivalence (verging on hostility) of the hard left to what they perceive as a globalist capitalist experiment, I don't think it is fair to argue that there is genuinely an establishment position.



If I am guilty of underestimating him, I think you may be guilty of the opposite. Without giving it much thought, Johnson could have done the same had he been minded to do so.
I agree that the matter has a complicated history, but I don't think that one could reasonably deny that staying in the EU has been the establishment position for the last 20 years, such than anyone thinking otherwise has been dismissed as either being eccentric or beyond the pale. I'm not actually sure that Johnson's political skills are so very estimable, he is plainly a highly ambitious chancer and yet managed to fail to be elected Tory leader in circumstances in which any half-capable politician should have prevailed!
 
Jan 2014
2,577
Westmorland
I agree that the matter has a complicated history, but I don't think that one could reasonably deny that staying in the EU has been the establishment position for the last 20 years, !
I suppose that depends on what you think 'the establishment' actually is. It's a phrase which is commonly bandied out but rarely (if ever) defined. The House of Commons has been generally in favour of EU membership for some time, but as directly elected representatives, it's a bit dificut to totally divorce them from 'the people', notwithstanding that politician-hating is now taking on the character of a national pastime.
 
The "performance" (however you want to define it) of the EEC/EU along with trading partners also play a role in this. The Great Recession damaged the economic arguments for the EU which were so strong back in 1973, emboldening the more Eurosceptic parts of the establishment to launch long-standing criticisms of the EU and further their push for leaving.
I've often heard the collapse of the Commonwealth contributed to the push towards EEC membership, the increasingly globalised international market has also given a push for the UK to "choose the open sea" to paraphrase Churchill.
 
Jan 2014
2,577
Westmorland
The "performance" (however you want to define it) of the EEC/EU along with trading partners also play a role in this. The Great Recession damaged the economic arguments for the EU which were so strong back in 1973, emboldening the more Eurosceptic parts of the establishment to launch long-standing criticisms of the EU and further their push for leaving.
I've often heard the collapse of the Commonwealth contributed to the push towards EEC membership, the increasingly globalised international market has also given a push for the UK to "choose the open sea" to paraphrase Churchill.
Yes indeed. Good points.

Let us hope our boat is seaworthy....
 
Oct 2013
14,533
Europix
I reckon it takes a hell of a lot of courage to give birth.
Well, it seems that some of our representative do not reckon, nut are convinced that women have that courage. It seems they are convinced women have even more courage.

Finally, UN adopted a resolution against rape as weapon of war. With two abstaining (RF and PRC).

An "edulcorated" version, as US for weeks menaced to veto it, if any references to reproductive and sexual health aren't eliminated. Th US delegation feared the references would be interpreted as supporting abortion.

So yes, I think the question is a good one: "Is it the feminism ruining the West ?"
 

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