Is it fair to compare French Algeria with the West Bank?

Aug 2018
19
Canada
#11
Is it fair to compare French Algeria with the West Bank?

Here are the similarities: Both of these territories are heavily Muslim-majority but with a significant non-Muslim minority (the Jews in the West Bank make up something like 20% of the total population there if one includes East Jerusalem and the pieds-noirs.....
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Similarly, were Israeli to annex the entire West Bank, its Muslim population would increase from 18% to around 35-40%. Both France and Israel were unwilling to give full voting rights and full representation to the Muslims in French Algeria/the West Bank (what I am thinking of is giving Muslims the power to elect 35-40% of the French/Israeli parliament)--thus creating tension between their democratic identities and the reality on the ground. ...
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Where are you getting these numbers?
What is thee Jewish Population of the West Bank? "20?" Number and source please
The Muslim one?
I think you contradict yourself.

Also, in the case of 'Palestine', Jews and Muslims WERE both offered a state in 1947.
The Jews accepted, the Palestinians declined, and went to War.

Palestinians have elected their own leadership in the West Bank.

Israel, all of Palestine actually, was envisioned as a Jewish state at the time of the Ottoman Break-up (see Balfour, Mandate, etc)
France didn't have a 3000 year history, and it's holiest place, in Algeria.

In 1947, the land designated as Israel had a Jewish Majority. That's how they drew it up.

There's no comparison really.
Your's is more like a "what if" case, than a withheld rights case in 'Palestine.'


As a side note, I should probably point out another point of similarity between the Muslim Algerians and the Palestinians--both of them wanted the settlers (the Europeans and Jews in the case of Algeria and the Jews in the case of Palestine) evicted from their territory after they acquired independence. (The Palestinians are willing to agree to a land swap but the settlers that will remain in an independent Palestine are going to be expelled if Palestine becomes independent and the Palestinians get their wish.)....
Again
Palestinians and Jews were both offered a state in Palestine in 1947. Arabs rejected it
They continued rejecting it at least through Oslo, and 1988.
They rejected a slightly smaller state at Camp David 2000.
`
You ignore alot of history to make this strange comparison.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
19,975
SoCal
#12
Where are you getting these numbers?
What is thee Jewish Population of the West Bank? "20?" Number and source please
The Muslim one?
I think you contradict yourself.

Also, in the case of 'Palestine', Jews and Muslims WERE both offered a state in 1947.
The Jews accepted, the Palestinians declined, and went to War.

Palestinians have elected their own leadership in the West Bank.

Israel, all of Palestine actually, was envisioned as a Jewish state at the time of the Ottoman Break-up (see Balfour, Mandate, etc)
France didn't have a 3000 year history, and it's holiest place, in Algeria.

In 1947, the land designated as Israel had a Jewish Majority. That's how they drew it up.

There's no comparison really.
Your's is more like a "what if" case, than a withheld rights case in 'Palestine.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank

As of July 2015 it has an estimated population of 2,785,366 Palestinians,[5] and approximately 371,000 Israeli settlers,[5] and approximately another 212,000 Jewish Israelis in East Jerusalem.[5]

((371000+212000)/(371000+212000+2785366)) = 17.31%. Thus, my "20% Jewish" figure for the West Bank is a little high--the actual figure for the West Bank is 17.31% Jewish.

Also, Yes, there was a bare Jewish majority in the territories that were given to the Jewish state in the 1947 UN Partition Plan. However, the Jewish state later expanded beyond these territories and then occupied the West Bank (and some additional territories) almost twenty years after that.
 
Aug 2018
19
Canada
#13
Yeah but when people have immigrated to your country with declared intent to have their own state and expelled and ethnic cleansed you from most of it, and the settlements in the west bank are openly declaring they are settling there to make any Palestinian state impossible , it's really hard for the Palestinians to see settlers as anything other than a fifth column intent of destroying any Palestinian state.

remember Zionism had decided at the very foundation of the movement before they decided on Palestine as their target that any native population of a future Zionist state should be removed/transferred as a matter of principle.

The Palestinian attitude might be regrettable is some philosophic sense but given the historical context, the attitudes of settlers is surely not surprising.
Not true at all.
the Arab population of Palestine INCREASED significantly in all but one Decade between 1880-1940.
They came to the land to take advantage of the economic opportunities the Jews presented..
Just as they did after Israel was established, for work
Just as Hundreds of thousands migrated to Kuwait and Iraq before the Gulf War. Then were expelled.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,249
#14
Also, in the case of 'Palestine', Jews and Muslims WERE both offered a state in 1947.
The Jews accepted, the Palestinians declined, and went to War.
The Zionists "accepted" the partition then immediately embarked on a war on conquest on teh Palestinian state along with ethic cleanings and massacres. It a strange version of acceptance.

Palestinians have elected their own leadership in the West Bank.
Israel prevents all Palestinians from voting in elections.

Israel, all of Palestine actually, was envisioned as a Jewish state at the time of the Ottoman Break-up (see Balfour, Mandate, etc)
Neither the Mandate or Balfour explicitly said ALL of Palestine was a Jewish STATE. Both were pretty ambiguous statements and were crafted to be so.

France didn't have a 3000 year history, and it's holiest place, in Algeria.
How does were someones distant ancestors lived 2000 years ago have any relevance to political rights today.

In 1947, the land designated as Israel had a Jewish Majority. That's how they drew it up.
Maybe there was some non counting of Bedouin, it's possible it actually had a Jewish minority.

You ignore alot of history to make this strange comparison.
As do you.
 
Aug 2018
19
Canada
#15
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank

As of July 2015 it has an estimated population of 2,785,366 Palestinians,[5] and approximately 371,000 Israeli settlers,[5] and approximately another 212,000 Jewish Israelis in East Jerusalem.[5]

((371000+212000)/(371000+212000+2785366)) = 17.31%. Thus, my "20% Jewish" figure for the West Bank is a little high--the actual figure for the West Bank is 17.31% Jewish.

Also, Yes, there was a bare Jewish majority in the territories that were given to the Jewish state in the 1947 UN Partition Plan. However, the Jewish state later expanded beyond these territories and then occupied the West Bank (and some additional territories) almost twenty years after that.
So you are using "West Bank" to only include the post-1967 part of the West Bank. IOW, East of the Green Line.

Which doesn't deal with MOST of what I posted... which remains unanswered.
Including the not comparable histories of the two different 'colonialist' movements.

The Jews did win some land in 1948/The war to Wipe out Israel and the Jews in it.
Did you know..
one can also lose a war?

IAC, there was No Palestine when Arabs controlled the land 1948-1967.
Arabs never bought that BS until they lost the War/land.

Immediately after the 1967 War, Israel offered back the conquered territories in exchange for mere recognition.
Arabs refused in August of that year.
See: 'Khartoum, 3 nos'
Only thus "Occupation."
They really didn't know what to do with it for a while
It wasn't the plan.
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Aug 2018
19
Canada
#17
The Zionists "accepted" the partition then immediately embarked on a war on conquest on teh Palestinian state along with ethic cleanings and massacres. It a strange version of acceptance.
False.
They immediately and barely defended an invasion of FIVE Arab Armies.
Get a grip.

Israel prevents all Palestinians from voting in elections.
Palestinians have their own elections.

Neither the Mandate or Balfour explicitly said ALL of Palestine was a Jewish STATE. Both were pretty ambiguous statements and were crafted to be so.
The purpose of the Mandate was to create a national Home for the Jewish people in Palestine.
It did, and it did NOT get "all" of it.
Ho hum.

How does were someones distant ancestors lived 2000 years ago have any relevance to political rights today.
Jews maintained a continuous presence in Palestine for 3000 years (UNLIKE French in Algeria/LOL), tho oft small in number.
They had risen to about 25% in 1600 before another expulsion.

Maybe there was some non counting of Bedouin, it's possible it actually had a Jewish minority.
Guess away guy!


As do you.
I know the history and have demonstrated it.
You just posted sloppy biased nonsense.


PS: You never answered my last post to you, refuting another of your casual/sloppy slanders.
The Palestinian population increased significantly throughout the period of Jewish settlement.
 
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pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,249
#18
False.
They immediately and barely defended an invasion of FIVE Arab Armies.
Get a grip.
Simply not true, for starters Israeli forces had already engaged in invasion of the proposed Arab state, massacres and ethnic cleansing predated any actions by the various Arab states. Israeli invasion of the Arab state came first.

Secondly the Arab Legion (Jordanian army) never entered the proposed Jewish partition state, had strict orders NOT to do so, and Jordan had sought an understanding with the Zionist leadership before hand. In no way were the Jordanian forces actually invading the proposed Jewish partition state. They were in competition with the Zionist forces over which of them got to conquer which parts of the proposed Arab partition state. generally the Arab states were opposed to an independent Palestinian state,


Palestinians have their own elections.
But the Israelis prevent those living in East Jersalem fro voting in them.

The purpose of the Mandate was to create a national Home for the Jewish people in Palestine.
It did, and it did NOT get all of it.
Ho hum.
The primary purpose of the Mandate was to prepare the population of Palestine for Independence. The tack on about a Jewish National home means what ? no one ever defined it and that was deliberately so,


Jews maintained a continuous presence in Palestine for 3000 years (UNLIKE French in Algeria/LOL), tho oft small in number.
They had risen to about 25% in 1600 before another expulsion.
How is that of any relevance what so ever. How does the existence of a population of an ethnic group in a nation give full rights to every other member of the ethnic group wherever they live in the world.

Does the presence of along standing Are population give all Arabs wherever they reside rights in Paletsine?

How do European jews who ancestor left Palestine 2000 years ago have rights?

Is this sort of thing to be universally applied to everybody else?