Is it fair to compare French Algeria with the West Bank?

Aug 2018
19
Canada
#31
The main purpose of the Mandate was to create a national homeland for the Jews in Palestine.
In fact, the promise to the Jews was for All of what is now Israel and Palestine... but with a minority Arab population.
Faisal, who got the Arabs all the rest, including 'Iraq' and 'Jordan', the latter 77% of the Mandate, had himself agreed to that fact in 1919:

That's right, the 1919 agreement BETWEEN the Arab state and Palestine/The JEWISH one.
This agreement was never carried out.
But posted to show State of Mind of the Time.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-weizmann-faisal-agreement-january-1919

Faisal-Weizman Agreement - 1919

His Royal Highness the Emir FAISAL, representing and acting on behalf of the Arab Kingdom of HEJAZ, AND Dr. Chaim Weizmann, representing and acting on behalf of the Zionist Organization, mindful of the racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the Jewish people, and realising that the surest means of working out the consummation of their national aspirations, is through the closest possible collaboration in the development of the Arab State and Palestine, and being desirous further of confirming the good understanding which exists between them, have agreed upon the following articles:

Article I
The Arab State and Palestine in all their relations and undertakings shall be controlled by the most cordial goodwill and understanding and to this end Arab and Jewish duly accredited agents shall be established and maintained in their respective territories.

Article II
Immediately following the completion of deliberations of the Peace Conference, the definite boundaries BETWEEN the Arab State and Palestine shall be determined by a commission to be agreed upon by the parties hereto.

Article III
In the establishment of the Constitution and Administration of Palestine all such measures shall be adopted as will afford the fullest guarantees for carrying into effect the British Government’s Declaration of the 2nd of November, 1917 (Balfour Declaration-SEH).

Article IV
All necessary measures will be taken to encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale, and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land through closer settlement and intensive cultivation of the soil. In taking such measures the Arab peasants and tenant farmers shall be protected in their rights, and shall be assisted in forwarding their economic development.
[.......]​​

But it was the Arabs who benefited from British gratefulness/Spoils between the Wars, not the Jews. Brits restricted immigration of Jews into Palestine among other measures... and Palestine was divided to have Both an Arab state and an Arab minority state.. instead of just a minority one.
Still wasn't enough for them.
 
Last edited:

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,101
#32
The main purpose of the Mandate was to create a national homeland for the Jews in Palestine.
It was a league of Nations Mandate and as such the purpose was always that of Independence to the entire population,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Nations_mandate
In fact, the promise to the Jews was for All of what is now Israel and Palestine.
And how can teh civil rights of the native population not be comprised if they are subject to domination by foreign settlers.

The whole idea was a horses arse from the start,

Not in either the Balfour declaration and Mandate. A national home in Palestine. Nothing in language suggest ALL of Palestine. And nothing defines what a national home is.


T
Faisal, who got the Arabs all the rest, including 'Iraq' and 'Jordan', the latter 77% of the Mandate, had himself agreed to that fact in 1919:

That's right, the 1919 agreement BETWEEN the Arab state and Palestine/The JEWISH one.
This agreement was never carried out.
But posted to show State of Mind of the Time.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...aisaltext.html

Faisal-Weizman Agreement - 1919

His Royal Highness the Emir FAISAL, representing and acting on behalf of the Arab Kingdom of HEJAZ, AND Dr. Chaim Weizmann, representing and acting on behalf of the Zionist Organization, mindful of the racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the Jewish people, and realising that the surest means of working out the consummation of their national aspirations, is through the closest possible collaboration in the development of the Arab State and Palestine, and being desirous further of confirming the good understanding which exists between them, have agreed upon the following articles:

Article I
The Arab State and Palestine in all their relations and undertakings shall be controlled by the most cordial goodwill and understanding and to this end Arab and Jewish duly accredited agents shall be established and maintained in their respective territories.

Article II
Immediately following the completion of deliberations of the Peace Conference, the definite boundaries BETWEEN the Arab State and Palestine shall be determined by a commission to be agreed upon by the parties hereto.

Article III
In the establishment of the Constitution and Administration of Palestine all such measures shall be adopted as will afford the fullest guarantees for carrying into effect the British Government’s Declaration of the 2nd of November, 1917 (Balfour Declaration-SEH).

Article IV
All necessary measures will be taken to encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale, and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land through closer settlement and intensive cultivation of the soil. In taking such measures the Arab peasants and tenant farmers shall be protected in their rights, and shall be assisted in forwarding their economic development.
[.......]​​

But it was the Arabs who benefited from British gratefulness/Spoils between the Wars, not the Jews. Brits restricted immigration of Jew into Palestine among other measures.
And on what basis to Faisal have for determining teh fate of Palestinian Arabs?

And I'd also suggest the Jewish virtual Library is a propaganda site and not a totally reliable source of information. It's only ever going to tell one side of the story.
 
Aug 2018
19
Canada
#33
...

And on what basis to Faisal have for determining teh fate of Palestinian Arabs?

And I'd also suggest the Jewish virtual Library is a propaganda site and not a totally reliable source of information. It's only ever going to tell one side of the story.
He determined the other 99% of the Ottoman break-up's fate!
Someone had to.
Who should decide?
They were 500 Tribes.
Who asked the 'Iraqis', 'Jorda-da-da-nians'?
No such thing.
One could argue 'palestine' (and WTF 'Lebanon') should have become Southern Syria, and the Syrians do.

And in case you hadn't noticed, NO Arabs voted then, and many still don't.
Arabs were ruled by Sheiks, Emirs, etc.
Faisal was as good as it gets, and did great for the Arabs, and they rule over More than their natural range (ie over the Kurds)
But some closet Israel haters only have one beef with the breakup.

Maybe Gazans (or Haifans), not Arab 'palestinians' should have been the size of the vote/country.
Someone had to decide.

But sure, let's make up a new standard for 1918!

gameover
 
Last edited:

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,101
#34
He determined the other 99% of the Ottoman break-up's fate!
Someone had to.
Who should vote decide?
They were 500 Tribes.
Who asked the 'Iraqis', 'Jorda-da-da-nians'?
No such thing.
One could argue 'palestine' (and WTF 'Lebanon') should have become Southern Syria, and the Syrians do.

And in case you hadn't noticed, NO Arabs voted then, and many still don't.
Arabs were ruled by Sheiks, Emirs, etc.
Faisal was as good as it gets, and did great for the Arabs, and they rule over More than their natural range (ie over the Kurds)
But some closet Israel haters only have one beef with the breakup.

Maybe Gazans (or Haifans), not Arab 'palestinians' should have been the size of the vote/country.
Someone had to decide.

But sure, let's make up a new standard for 1918!
Ahh Imperialism is good Might is right. That's the best you got? people in London and Medina can decide how people Palestine should live and what rights they have.

So If I ask someone in say Moscow if I can have your car your good with that?
 
Sep 2014
1,194
Queens, NYC
#35
Pugsville, page 1 post 3:

remember Zionism had decided at the very foundation of the movement before they decided on Palestine as their target that any native population of a future Zionist state should be removed/transferred as a matter of principle.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please cite your source for this.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,101
#36
Pugsville, page 1 post 3:

remember Zionism had decided at the very foundation of the movement before they decided on Palestine as their target that any native population of a future Zionist state should be removed/transferred as a matter of principle.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please cite your source for this.
"But in private Herzl sang a different tune - one of displacement and transfer of Arabs, albeit with Full financial compensation, In 1895 , he wrote in his dairy "we must expropriate gently... We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries , while denying it employment in our country .. .Both th eprocess of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly"
page 21-22 Righteous victims - Benny Morris.
 
Aug 2018
19
Canada
#37
"But in private Herzl sang a different tune - one of displacement and transfer of Arabs, albeit with Full financial compensation, In 1895 , he wrote in his dairy "we must expropriate gently... We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries , while denying it employment in our country .. .Both th eprocess of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly"
page 21-22 Righteous victims - Benny Morris.
One of the most prevalent abuses on the internet are Bogus "Zionist Quotes."
Thousands of FAKE ones on scores of anti-Semite, anti-Israel, or Arab websites.
You can bet Pugsville uses many of them.
Ben Gurion, Dayan, and so many more
Trunc...ed, Reversed, wrong attribution, Thousands out there.

CAMERA Snapshots: Distorted Quotes to Defend Distorted Maps


Distorted Quote: Theodor Herzl: "We shall have to spirit the penniless population (the Arabs) across the border . . . while denying it any employment in our country."

As Efraim Karsh has ably shown, this is a Truncated quote. The more complete quote is:

When we occupy the land, we shall bring immediate benefits to the state that receives us. We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly … It goes without saying that we shall respectfully tolerate persons of other faiths and protect their property, their honor, and their freedom with the harshest means of coercion.
This is another area in which we shall set the entire world a wonderful example
… Should there be many such immovable owners in individual areas [who would not sell their property to us], we shall simply leave them there and develop our commerce in the direction of other areas which belong to us.​

You can't debate me.
gameover #5
 
Last edited:

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,101
#38
One of the most prevalent abuses on the internet are Bogus "Zionist Quotes."
Thousands of FAKE ones on scores of anti-Semite, anti-Israel, or Arab websites.
You can bet Pugsville uses many of them.
Ben Gurion, Dayan, and so many more
Trunc...ed, Reversed, wrong attribution, Thousands out there.

CAMERA Snapshots: Distorted Quotes to Defend Distorted Maps


Distorted Quote: Theodor Herzl: "We shall have to spirit the penniless population (the Arabs) across the border . . . while denying it any employment in our country."

As Efraim Karsh has ably shown, this is a Truncated quote. The more complete quote is:

When we occupy the land, we shall bring immediate benefits to the state that receives us. We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly … It goes without saying that we shall respectfully tolerate persons of other faiths and protect their property, their honor, and their freedom with the harshest means of coercion.
This is another area in which we shall set the entire world a wonderful example
… Should there be many such immovable owners in individual areas [who would not sell their property to us], we shall simply leave them there and develop our commerce in the direction of other areas which belong to us.​

You can't debate me.
gameover #5
How do you respect someone when you propose to stop them working and seek to "encourage" them to leave their home?

Well the truncation is Benny Morris not mine. Who is after all a Israeli , Zionists Historian. he considered it significant and that was what he quoted.

However the extended version the intent is as clear. The Removal of the native population is desired. Dentying them employment is suggested to help them be convinced to leave,

And again that's hardly an unbaist source of information.
 
Sep 2014
1,194
Queens, NYC
#39
The Herzl quote, from a diary, does not show that Zionists had determined on a policy; just that one zionist wanted it.
To show that Zionism had decided to export the native population, quotes from many sources, and some documents, are needed.
The happenings in the 1940s do not show expulsion.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,101
#40
The Herzl quote, from a diary, does not show that Zionists had determined on a policy; just that one zionist wanted it.
To show that Zionism had decided to export the native population, quotes from many sources, and some documents, are needed.
The happenings in the 1940s do not show expulsion.
Benny Morris quotes plenty of others, he says the 'transfer' thinking was core to Zionist thought and that 'transfer' was in the air in 1948. This is a Jewish Zionist Historian. One who thinks all Arabs should have been expelled. A very carefully Historian, I have some problems with Benny Morris but he only writes what he can document he's very conservative that way.

There are plenty of others, Ben Gurion for starters and both Ben Gurion and Herzl say we can;t be open about this we must be discreet.

The happenings in the 1940s were expulsions.

they were explicitly necessary for an expanded Israeli state. There wa sno doubt they intended to expand the Israeli state during the 1948 war. That was only possible in large amounts of the native population was removed. As it was.