Is it time to think international relations and security beyond NATO?

Theodoric

Ad Honorem
Mar 2012
2,664
I wouldn’t listen to Trump about NATO. First, he seems to think there is some kind of due that countries owe the US or the NATO organization, this is false. Second, he thinks he can bring Brazil into it, also false (aside from the fact that no one except him likes their authoritarian leaning government, they’re not in the North Atlantic), and third, he didn’t seem to understand that it is a defensive pact: he was worried about Montenegro attacking someone and that the US would have to help.

Trump is an advocate for the military industrial complex. He wants more tax dollars spent on their weaponry. He even sold something like 100 billion+ to Saudi Arabia despite the fact that they would be using it for genocidal warfare.

When it comes to matters of NATO, he’s not someone who should be given any attention due to his extraordinary ignorance and obvious advocacy for the MIC corporations on his Twitter account. An advocate of the MIC in a position of control/high influence over tax expenditures raisrs ethics concerns due to the conflict of interest.

The US tax payers being alright with this conflict of interest is one thing. They got duped out of a lot of money. But expecting other countries to listen to Trump, when we know his character, is profoundly naive. At best you’ll have some political opportunists that will yell about it for a bit, and then stop when they realize they’re not gaining votes from anyone except a few angry loners (most angry loners won’t go for it =P)
 
Last edited:
Jul 2016
8,716
USA
I wouldn’t listen to Trump about NATO. First, he seems to think there is some kind of due that countries owe the US or the NATO organization, this is false. Second, he thinks he can bring Brazil into it, also false (aside from the fact that no one except him likes their authoritarian leaning government, they’re not in the North Atlantic), and third, he didn’t seem to understand that it is a defensive pact: he was worried about Montenegro attacking someone and that the US would have to help.

Trump is an advocate for the military industrial complex. He wants more tax dollars spent on their weaponry. He even sold something like 100 billion+ to Saudi Arabia despite the fact that they would be using it for genocidal warfare.

When it comes to matters of NATO, he’s not someone who should be given any attention due to his extraordinary ignorance and obvious advocacy for the MIC corporations on his Twitter account. An advocate of the MIC in a position of control/high influence over tax expenditures raisrs ethics concerns due to the conflict of interest.

The US tax payers being alright with this conflict of interest is one thing. They got duped out of a lot of money. But expecting other countries to listen to Trump, when we know his character, is profoundly naive.
Right. Because Germany, France, Britain don't sell arms to basically the entire world, at least anyone who will buy them. Get the off your high horse, its not high.

And other countries are listening to Trump, they're all ponying up more money, which was Trump's entire point. So he won.
 
Likes: Linschoten
Aug 2009
5,219
Londinium
Thanks for the link.

If that comes in, with US companies excluded, the US could simply ban EU firms from domestic weapon sales - that would be enough of a dent for mostly German manufactures. Without another ready market for the suppliers to move into (can't think of a civilians weapons market even remotely comparable to the US) I think this would likely hit much harder as the US firms could pursue other markets. With that said, it'll still be a hit for the US and UK companies, and an even bigger one for the alliance as a whole.
 

Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,100
Thinking in term of war will end up in getting you one ,
The country currently not just thinking about it, but actively PREPARED for it in Europe... is Russia.

Symmetry arguments still apply. You might think it's an effective indictment of western Europeans. But Russia got there waaay ahead of them. Because it ACTIVELY went there first. Everyone else is just responding. (If they even are, considering how western European nations, unlike Russia, has not spent the last decade massively spending on building military capability.)

Requires one to actually LOOK at Russia's actions of course.
 
Jul 2017
203
Srpska
NATO is clearly offensive as it strikes first perceived threats as well.
Central powers and USA have different strategic goals. Ultimately strategically they cannot be allies. They can tactically align on issues like Drang nach Osten. But ultimately strategic goal of USA is to keep EU divided into small nations lead militarily by the big brother. Central power do not have that goal, ultimately. It's not a healthy alliance.
 
Jul 2016
8,716
USA
NATO is clearly offensive as it strikes first perceived threats as well.
Central powers and USA have different strategic goals. Ultimately strategically they cannot be allies. They can tactically align on issues like Drang nach Osten. But ultimately strategic goal of USA is to keep EU divided into small nations lead militarily by the big brother. Central power do not have that goal, ultimately. It's not a healthy alliance.
Central Powers? Elaborate please. Also, who is still pursuing policy of Drang nach Osten?