Is it time to think international relations and security beyond NATO?

[pikeshot1600]

Not least if you have a public culture that doesn't value that kind of civil administration, and generally tends to paint it and its employees as little better than sponges squandering tax payer money.

I assume you are talking about the US in #397. In the States, nearly everyone gets a piece of the Federal pie, and in many cases of the individual state pie as well. The ignorance of that tends to be willful.

There are individual persons, and even professional associations, who speak nonsense about that. A civil engineer who designs bridges and roadways, and who bitches and moans about how the Federal government should "get off his back," is flirting with an insanity diagnosis. Public money is what pays for his life.

Well off retired people who have enough, or more than enough, income are not declining their Social Security benefits. They are not declining their Medicare after age 65.

Trucking companies and independent transportation workers who support the current Republican con game ignore the fact that the highways, and in many cases their customers on whom they depend, are in their turns dependent on Federal DOT funding, or on Federal subsidies for transportation of (often Federally subsidized) agricultural products or even automobiles (Tesla would have collapsed long since without Federal and state subsidies).

The Koch Brothers and Amazon are not complaining about the tax breaks they get, as in no taxes at all in many cases. Even there some Federal employees have to verify that their cheating is within the law.

My father passed away young and I got Social Security benefits until age 22 which paid in large part for my education. I probably could not have afforded it otherwise. I know others who also benefited in that way.

** Nor are corporations like Lockheed, and Ingalls Shipbuilding, and United Technologies, and Raytheon, and General Electric....and all the major universities that do multi-billions in Federal research contracts, blah, blah....turning down the business. Also their employees, stockholders - and all the military personnel, and their civilian employees and their families, and local economies that are supported by them.....A.S.O.

The flow of public funding requires those sponge-employees to facilitate the transfer payments to people who consume all that "squandered" tax payer money.

** EDIT: Incidentally, the seventh paragraph above in re defense contractors and research contracts definitely applies to this thread and to NATO.

 

[Tulius]

Actually it's a very good, a really useful tool. Comedy helps cuts through the "waffle" and can highlight the most inane or ridiculous parts of life. As shown above.

Responding with "you shouldn't say/do that" is what really harms a political/any discussion.

When people use sarcasm and irony, we never really know what they are trying to saying. By the way, comedy and sarcasm aren’t synonymous. If you don’t agree with me, we can agree to disagree. My point was declared.

 

[Baldtastic]

When people use sarcasm and irony, we never really know what they are trying to saying.

huh?

We know exactly what they are trying to say, they are being sarcastic or ironic for comedic effect and using this to make a point. If you can't see Benet the comedic speech then I'm not sure you're the best one to judge sarcastic or ironic statements!

Comedy and sarcasm are synonymous - have you ever laughed at a sarcastic statement?

 

[Tulius]

huh?

We know exactly what they are trying to say, they are being sarcastic or ironic for comedic effect and using this to make a point. If you can't see Benet the comedic speech then I'm not sure you're the best one to judge sarcastic or ironic statements!

Comedy and sarcasm are synonymous - have you ever laughed at a sarcastic statement?

What or who is “Benet”? No sarcasm or irony here, it is a statement of my English ignorance.

 

[Baldtastic]

What or who is “Benet”? No sarcasm or irony here, it is a statement of my English ignorance.

*Benefit - a typo

 

[deaf tuner]

We know exactly what they are trying to say,

Sorry, but I'm afraid we're two: I didn't get Lind's "target" either.

 

[Rodger]

Not least if you have a public culture that doesn't value that kind of civil administration, and generally tends to paint it and its employees as little better than sponges squandering tax payer money.

Now you are understanding things.

 

[deaf tuner]

By the way, despite the reputation of the U.S. its social programs are quite extensive and costly

It was my impression too, but I preferred to hear it said by an American ...

Now, do we agree that the "social programs or defense" isn't the only option, but that it can be also the option "social programs and defense" ?

 

[Baldtastic]

Sorry, but I'm afraid we're two: I didn't get Lind's "target" either.

The part you quoted me from wasn't a specific response to Lins post but rather a general defence of sarcasm or irony - of comedy.

I'm not going to explain someone else's post so best ask Lins in this thread or PM him. I thought his point was pretty obvious but if it went over peoples heads then perhaps this is a British/European comedy issue.

 

[deaf tuner]

The part you quoted me from wasn't a specific response to Lins post but rather a general defence of sarcasm or irony - of comedy.

I'm not going to explain someone else's post so best ask Lins in this thread or PM him. I thought his point was pretty obvious but if it went over peoples heads then perhaps this is a British/European comedy issue.

Thank You for clarifying.

BTW, sarcasm, irony, comedy aren't synonymous afaik. But I'll check the exact definitions and meanings in English, maybe it's about "faux amis".

________
"faux amis"= "false/treacherous friends" designs words that are (quasi) identical but have different meanings in other languages. One example would be "crime".