Is it wrong to fear but also feel bad for China?

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heylouis

Ad Honorem
Apr 2013
6,627
China
This is more clear. As for I know the Muslim minority in China is not living great days ... and that's part of "islam".
[China’s Repression of Uighurs in Xinjiang]


sure, we knew what terms the US medias would choose in their news reports, such as "countries jumped to Beijing's defense" "denied allegations of torture"

fact is, the US and some other european countries do not have a better position to make a claim over the muslim nations

hope US and european countries solve their own problems, take care of their own islam population.


Mr. President,

I have the honor to make the following joint statement on behalf of 54 countries including Pakistan, the Russian Federation, Egypt, Bolivia, Democratic Republic of the Congo, and Serbia.

We reiterate that the work of Human Rights in the United Nations should be conducted in an objective, transparent, non-selective, constructive, non-confrontational and non-politicized manner. We express our firm opposition to relevant countries' practice of politicizing human rights issues, by naming and shaming, and publicly exerting pressures on other countries.

We commend China's remarkable achievements in the field of human rights by adhering to the people-centered development philosophy and protecting and promoting human rights through development. We also appreciate China's contributions to the international human rights cause.

We take note that terrorism, separatism and religious extremism has caused enormous damage to people of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang, which has seriously infringed upon human rights, including right to life, health and development. Faced with the grave challenge of terrorism and extremism, China has undertaken a series of counter-terrorism and deradicalization measures in Xinjiang, including setting up vocational education and training centers. Now safety and security has returned to Xinjiang and the fundamental human rights of people of all ethnic groups there are safeguarded. The past three consecutive years has seen not a single terrorist attack in Xinjiang and people there enjoy a stronger sense of happiness, fulfillment and security. We note with appreciation that human rights are respected and protected in China in the process of counter-terrorism and deradicalization.

We appreciate China's commitment to openness and transparency. China has invited a number of diplomats, international organizations officials and journalist to Xinjiang to witness the progress of the human rights cause and the outcomes of counter-terrorism and deradicalization there. What they saw and heard in Xinjiang completely contradicted what was reported in the media. We call on relevant countries to refrain from employing unfounded charges against China based on unconfirmed information before they visit Xinjiang. We urge the OHCHR, Treaty Bodies and relevant Special Procedures mandate holders to conduct their work in an objective and impartial manner according to their mandate and with true and genuinely credible information, and value the communication with member states.

Thank you, Mr. President.
 
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Baldtastic

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,541
Londinium
I say that . maybe that the account will be closed. In fact, I have received many warnings.

China has only one enemy , is the United States.

After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Americans did not abandon ideological warfare, continued to promote American democracy worldwide, and overturned countless countries. China is naturally one of their goals and has never given up.

For example, attacking the Chinese Communist Party, supporting separatism, and funding color revolutions are all aimed at overthrowing the Chinese government and letting the democrats in Hong Kong and Taiwan rule.So I hate ideology because it will start war.
Thanks for your response :)

I'm surprised to hear you say that, I would have thought the US is more a rival than an outright enemy.

All nations, throughout history, have done what you describe to a greater or lesser extent as their situation permits. Americans did not start ideological warfare, nor are they the entity using this tactic today.

I agree that a strict adherence to an ideology (by a state) should be resisted, but potentially differ in that within a functioning democracy, it is possible to distance the government (as far as is possible) from a single ideology by ensuring those ideas can compete.
 

heylouis

Ad Honorem
Apr 2013
6,627
China
I say that . maybe that the account will be closed. In fact, I have received many warnings.

China has only one enemy , is the United States.

After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Americans did not abandon ideological warfare, continued to promote American democracy worldwide, and overturned countless countries. China is naturally one of their goals and has never given up.

For example, attacking the Chinese Communist Party, supporting separatism, and funding color revolutions are all aimed at overthrowing the Chinese government and letting the democrats in Hong Kong and Taiwan rule.So I hate ideology because it will start war.
the US is not an enemy of china, in my opinion.


in fact, the US does not have a single voice. no, i am not saying the individual people of US give US multiple voices.
what i meant is that, in US, there are multiple interest groups, which are vast and incredibly powerful and influential.
and they have some similar and some different ideas toward china.

perhaps there is one thing the groups share in common, US should be a shinning city on the hill, which implies nations like china should be under the hill or the hillside.

that is unimportant to chinese.
china also wants to stand on a hill, this hill is the history of past china. we desire climb up by days, not dropping down.
whether other hills is higher and more shinning than our hill is not our concern. i don't think that is our need.

unfortunately, among the groups of US, some have a determination to cut our hill to ensure the US hill is more higher and more shinning. some others intend to climb faster to achieve the effect of being relatively higher and more shinning.

those who want to achieve the result via cutting other hills are enemy, not just to china.
and it is a progress of self-actualization.
 
Jul 2019
71
hongkong
the US is not an enemy of china, in my opinion.


in fact, the US does not have a single voice. no, i am not saying the individual people of US give US multiple voices.
what i meant is that, in US, there are multiple interest groups, which are vast and incredibly powerful and influential.
and they have some similar and some different ideas toward china.

perhaps there is one thing the groups share in common, US should be a shinning city on the hill, which implies nations like china should be under the hill or the hillside.

that is unimportant to chinese.
china also wants to stand on a hill, this hill is the history of past china. we desire climb up by days, not dropping down.
whether other hills is higher and more shinning than our hill is not our concern. i don't think that is our need.

unfortunately, among the groups of US, some have a determination to cut our hill to ensure the US hill is more higher and more shinning. some others intend to climb faster to achieve the effect of being relatively higher and more shinning.

those who want to achieve the result via cutting other hills are enemy, not just to china.
and it is a progress of self-actualization.
You are a conservative Chinese and you will not be as direct as me.

But the strategic issue is not a secret. China's anti-intervention regional rejection strategy is aimed at the United States. So only by telling Americans what they really think can we stop the war.
 
Jul 2019
71
hongkong
Thanks for your response :)

I'm surprised to hear you say that, I would have thought the US is more a rival than an outright enemy.

All nations, throughout history, have done what you describe to a greater or lesser extent as their situation permits. Americans did not start ideological warfare, nor are they the entity using this tactic today.

I agree that a strict adherence to an ideology (by a state) should be resisted, but potentially differ in that within a functioning democracy, it is possible to distance the government (as far as is possible) from a single ideology by ensuring those ideas can compete.
You are talking about democracy. But all countries are democratic also terrible.

Democracy is incompatible with Islam. So the United States did not succeed in the Middle East. Similarly, democracy has failed in China. in Hong Kong , no matter what the government does, the opposition will stop it, so Hong Kong is dying and nothing can be done.

I have a lot of friends who like democracy and they have emigrated to Canada.

Many friends also like the Chinese system, and they have gone to Shenzhen.

that so good, don't interfere in other countries, there will be no war.
 

heylouis

Ad Honorem
Apr 2013
6,627
China
You are a conservative Chinese and you will not be as direct as me.

But the strategic issue is not a secret. China's anti-intervention regional rejection strategy is aimed at the United States. So only by telling Americans what they really think can we stop the war.

so called anti-intervention is in fact in a short future for the case of taiwan.

US is indeed a potential threat on separating taiwan, as they did it in 1950s.

i don't think that potential threat could become an actual threat. the US official personnel knew better than their common people on the cost of making war with china NOW

what is more, taiwan issue is only a short-term issue, which will be solved in no longer than decades.

i don't think china need to think short sightly like some others.

the problem upon china is continuously surviving in next centuries.
 

Baldtastic

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,541
Londinium
You are talking about democracy. But all countries are democratic also terrible.

Democracy is incompatible with Islam. So the United States did not succeed in the Middle East. Similarly, democracy has failed in China. in Hong Kong , no matter what the government does, the opposition will stop it, so Hong Kong is dying and nothing can be done.

I have a lot of friends who like democracy and they have emigrated to Canada.

Many friends also like the Chinese system, and they have gone to Shenzhen.

that so good, don't interfere in other countries, there will be no war.
The number of democratic nations globally have grown, and continue to grow - far more so than any other political system.

Your statement, "But all countries are democratic also terrible." is so sweeping and just false.

Democracy is entirely compatible with Islamic nations, unclear if it's compatible with Islam, as you suggest, as this would require a detailed knowledge of Islamic law/systems, but i suspect you're right in that a secular democracy and theocratic system just aren't compatible.

It's untrue to suggest that Islamic states can't be democratic; millions of Indian Muslims vote alongside their Hindu countrymen; Indonesia has a population of ~400m and is democratic. There are other examples, such as Tunisia.

The majority Muslim nation of Turkey has been a secular republic for longer than China has been communist.

Before the inevitable straw man; I'm not suggesting that all democratic nations are perfect, or those examples provided above.

I would suggest that your friends haven't moved to Canada for "democracy" but rather the democratic systems has established, a better place to live and raise kids than non-democratic systems. This is why the vast majority of global migration occurs from relatively un-secular and un-democratic states to democratic and secular nations.
 
Jul 2019
71
hongkong
The number of democratic nations globally have grown, and continue to grow - far more so than any other political system.

Your statement, "But all countries are democratic also terrible." is so sweeping and just false.

Democracy is entirely compatible with Islamic nations, unclear if it's compatible with Islam, as you suggest, as this would require a detailed knowledge of Islamic law/systems, but i suspect you're right in that a secular democracy and theocratic system just aren't compatible.

It's untrue to suggest that Islamic states can't be democratic; millions of Indian Muslims vote alongside their Hindu countrymen; Indonesia has a population of ~400m and is democratic. There are other examples, such as Tunisia.

The majority Muslim nation of Turkey has been a secular republic for longer than China has been communist.

Before the inevitable straw man; I'm not suggesting that all democratic nations are perfect, or those examples provided above.

I would suggest that your friends haven't moved to Canada for "democracy" but rather the democratic systems has established, a better place to live and raise kids than non-democratic systems. This is why the vast majority of global migration occurs from relatively un-secular and un-democratic states to democratic and secular nations.
Democracy is good. I have been to Canada and I also like living in Canada.

But I don't like Americans turning it into religion. They told other countries: If you do n’t have democracy, then you are heresy and we will overthrow you.

I agree with Huntington's theory of clash of civilizations. Democracy is the core of Western civilization and the main force for modernization. It has succeeded in global promotion, and other civilizations have been affected.

Only Islamic and Confucian civilizations can maintain independence. It's not that these two civilizations don't like democracy, but that their cultures have a core force that cannot be challenged. It is incompatible with democracy and will trigger war.

My point is simple, you can dislike it, but please respect the choices of other civilizations and do not force them to change. This is not democratic in itself.
 

Mrbsct

Ad Honorem
Jul 2013
2,650
USA
Only Islamic and Confucian civilizations can maintain independence. It's not that these two civilizations don't like democracy, but that their cultures have a core force that cannot be challenged. It is incompatible with democracy and will trigger war.
I don't think Confuctian civilization has anything to do with preventing democracy. ie. Taiwan. China is simple huge and too wide of a demographic for a really succesful democracy.

Islamic civilization is not incompatible with democracy. The problem is the people will vote from Islamists. ie. Turkey and Egypt.
 
Jul 2019
71
hongkong
I don't think Confuctian civilization has anything to do with preventing democracy. ie. Taiwan. China is simple huge and too wide of a demographic for a really succesful democracy.

Islamic civilization is not incompatible with democracy. The problem is the people will vote from Islamists. ie. Turkey and Egypt.
You just think that Taiwan ’s democracy is successful from a political point of view.

but Chinese including Taiwanese think it is a failure, and all parties are negating each other and cannot do any meaningful work.

Chinese in Taiwan and Hong Kong are all immigrating, either to mainland China or Europe and the United States. Do you know why?

Because of fear of war.

We are more pessimistic about the Taiwan issue. Because it was a product of the Cold War.

In 1945, after the end of World War II, the Soviet Union supported the Chinese Communist Party and the United States-supported Kuomintang started a civil war. As a result, the Chinese Communist Party won, and the Kuomintang pushed Taiwan to become an exile government. However, the two sides did not sign an armistice agreement, and the war did not end.

If it were not for the Americans to stop, the Taiwan issue would not have existed, and the United States has not given up the Cold War mentality to this day.

So we think Taiwan will war again.
 
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