Is MI5 interfering in Scottish affairs?

Sep 2012
904
Prague, Czech Republic
#61
why were no Exit Polls allowed to take place?

Exit polls were allowed. Just none were held. Unless the logic here is that, since none were held, we have to assume that everyone with the money and inclination to arrange one had been secretly advised in advance they were not allowed.



Why did the police not oversee the sealing of ballot boxes and their delivery to the counting stations?

Do they in other elections?
 
May 2011
1,143
Morayshire, Scotland
#62
Some history since we're in a history forum! German reunification predated the EU by about 2 years, and it was complete before the Maastricht Treaty was signed
Sorry my error there. Should pay more attention to detail.
As for it being a history Forum. Perhaps you haven't read any of my posts. As well as mentioning Germany, I have referred back to MI5 activity throughout the 20th century. Activity, although strongly suspected at the time,only admitted when the relevant details became public: either by the Government or the actions of a 'whistleblower'.

That being said, there was no bending of any rules with regards to the EC. The Federal Republic of Germany was a signatory to the EC treaties
Had the EC wanted to the path to membership could have been rather more time consuming. It could have insisted that all treaties were sorted out for instance.
German unification did not involve any new countries joining the EC
Are you for real? East Germany was not a fully sovereign state?
but rather some new states joining the FRG
Rather disingenuous. East Germany was a state! Yes the DDR states became part of West Germany but that was only accepted by the EU as a fast track method.
None of the European treaties specify that the FRG can only include the same states as were members at the time of signature
Do they actually state that they can include East Germany.

It can't be pretended that this was some surprise the signatories could not have foreseen and thus against the spirit of the treaties, since the German Basic Law at the time explicitly discusses the future unification of Germany by the accession of additional states
It would seem that unification was unforeseen as there is no mention of it in the Treaty of Rome. What the West Germans hoped would occur was obviously not on the radar of the other countries.

However, there is one small stumbling block. The UK currently has a few opt-outs on certain areas of EU legislation and treaty commitments. There is very little political will in the EU to allow any opt-outs for future accessions - you're in or you're not. It may be that a new Scottish government has no issue with this, but it still means there would need to be an accession process to get these bits in line. I would expect this to be fairly swift if the political will was there in Scotland, but it would be an automatic, instant process.
Some in Scotland hold the view that Scotland would be a successor state to the UK and would inherit the opt-outs. That, as you rightly say, would be sorted out during negotiations. These need not be long and drawn out - as the E. Grerman inclusion shows. The situation in 2014 was that a Yes victory would have seen negotiations begin with EU, to be concluded within 2 years (hopefully).The situation is of course now very different. We would be negotiating with the EU from outwith the organisation. The process would require good-will on both sides.
As some states have shown e.g. with the Euro (Czech Republic has not even entered ERM2) it is not all or nothing.
 
May 2011
1,143
Morayshire, Scotland
#63
Exit polls were allowed. Just none were held. Unless the logic here is that, since none were held, we have to assume that everyone with the money and inclination to arrange one had been secretly advised in advance they were not allowed
In a way you are right. as YouGov did provide an after poll result. This however was not a normal exit poll. It consisted of asking people, on the day before the referendum, how they would vote. The same people were invited to reply to the company saying how they had voted. I remember it well as I was one who replied to both.

Do they in other elections?
If they no longer do it, I'm afraid I don't know when it was stopped. Maybe not enough police nowadays to cover every polling station. maybe it was the excitement of the day and the thought that dirty tricks were in play that made me wonder.
 

redcoat

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,368
Stockport Cheshire UK
#64
If they no longer do it, I'm afraid I don't know when it was stopped.
While Police in the UK provide officers to polling stations if the returning officers feel there may be due cause to protect the voting process they are not tasked with supervision of the ballot boxes, that is responsibility of the returning officers and their staff.
 
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May 2011
1,143
Morayshire, Scotland
#65
While Police in the UK provide officers to polling stations if the returning officers feel there may be due cause to protect the voting process they are not tasked with supervision of the ballot boxes, that is responsibility of the returning officers and their staff.
The police would be called for, as you say, if there was a problem.such as you describe. However they go round the Polling Stations as a matter of course, visiting each one two or three times during polling hours.
 
May 2011
1,143
Morayshire, Scotland
#67
You silly lad, you've been mocked and kicked all round the forum for your silly thread, your underlying logic has been exposed as untenable and your entire argument as nothing but baseless agenda-mongering
Nothing silly about the thread.
You have ignored the facts surrounding historic examples and deny that there is any possibility that MI5 has an interest in the Independence movement. Now that really is silly.
To think that a movement whose aim is to break up the UK is not on the radar of the UK's internal security service is ridiculous.

On that basis you probably should have bowed out with whatever grace you could muster but, like some kind of Springer Spaniel, return again and again to get your nose scratched. don't get me wrong, I love Springers, but they're just about the stupidest dogs on god's earth w/r/t learning from their repeated mistakes
Ridicule and sarcasm are very poor 'witty' responses to a serious situation.

actually, I'd be more inclined to the view that you're either a fantasist or bat****-mental.
You can say what you like about me but I can assure you that I do not fit either category.
 

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