Is MI5 interfering in Scottish affairs?

May 2011
1,143
Morayshire, Scotland
#81
david cameron had already promised there would be a referendum if he won the 2015 election
Yes but he was behind in the Polls. So no guarantee of a Referendum.
The Scottish people, understanding how a democractic election works, must have understoof the possability of Cameron winning
In 2014 Scotland had a much bigger decision to take much notice of 'what could happen ... if'
And following that, they must have understood that there must have been a possability that in a referendum the UK would vote to leave. If they could not see the possabilities, then more fool them
Hindsight is a great thing!

They were not dupped, con or dragged out of the EU. They voted to stay in the Uk and therefore to except the will of the people of the UK in any vote, be it election or referendum
It is not you who decides how the Scottish people react to situations. Ignoring the will of the Scottish people in this instance will be played for all it's worth in the Indyref2 campaign.

there is no point keep whinning about it and blaming everyone else.
62% of Scots voted to Remain and that massive majority has been ignored in the rush to placate the Brexiteers who had narrowly won the UK vote.
Btw
What has all this got to do with MI5s surveillance of Nationalists?
 
May 2011
1,143
Morayshire, Scotland
#82
Thats such a stupid argument. We have a saying in the British army, Assumpition is the mother of all F**k up's. Scotlands people based there entire future on wishful thinking and you want to blame the English for it.
What a load of rubbish. What you are in effect saying is that YOU KNEW a referendum was going to take place - an assumption not based on the reality of the situation in 2014.
 

Bish

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
8,185
Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk.
#83
Yes but he was behind in the Polls. So no guarantee of a Referendum.
And, polls change, and we know you can't rely on them. The Scots should not have been so stupid as to base their decision on what the English might or might not do. Your people made the decision of their own free will, stop trying to blame everyone else for.
 

Bish

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
8,185
Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk.
#84
What a load of rubbish. What you are in effect saying is that YOU KNEW a referendum was going to take place - an assumption not based on the reality of the situation in 2014.
We knew if cameron got elected one would take place. If you really think the Scottish people decision was based purely on future events, then you should blame them for not considering all possabilities. It was the reality of the situation because he had already promised one.
 

GogLais

Ad Honorem
Sep 2013
4,634
Wirral
#85
Nobody could assume there would be a referendum. Labour were ahead in the polls and they wouldn't have played UKIPs game had they won. The fact is the counter argument to Scotland would stay in the EU after Independence was that the only way of ensuring Scotland remained in the Union was to vote NO. I can't answer for those who were taken in by the promise.
Nobody promised the Scots that there wouldn’t really be a referendum on Brexit nor did anyone guarantee that the U.K. would vote to remain if there were one.

It’s funny, I’m sure that many supporters of Scottish independence think the worst of Westminster politicians but when it suits them they make out that they trust them.
 
May 2011
1,143
Morayshire, Scotland
#86
And, polls change, and we know you can't rely on them. The Scots should not have been so stupid as to base their decision on what the English might or might not do. Your people made the decision of their own free will, stop trying to blame everyone else for.
Are you for real? The English people voted in sufficient numbers to negate the massive Scottish Remain vote. Let's just accept facts and put the blame where it belongs.
As a YES voter, I have absolutely no idea of the thought process of those who denied statehood to our country. Calling people stupid for holding a certain view or for believing one of the many lies put to us by the anti-Scots is a rather silly reaction. People simply came to a conclusion based on how they perceieved the situation. Scotland's position vis a vis the EU was one of the points forcefully put by BT.
The Polls had shown Labour in the lead for some time. There was therefore absolutely no certainty there would be a Brexit Ref.
 
May 2011
1,143
Morayshire, Scotland
#87
We knew if cameron got elected one would take place. If you really think the Scottish people decision was based purely on future events, then you should blame them for not considering all possabilities. It was the reality of the situation because he had already promised one.
What are you on? The main thrust was on the future. Not only staying in the EU but currency etc.
Oh yes he had promised one. According to your logic we should not have taken thsat into account because it was not of the, 2014, present.
As for not 'considering all possibilities', we are being forced out of the EU. People cast their vote based on very little info.
 
May 2011
1,143
Morayshire, Scotland
#88
Nobody promised the Scots that there wouldn’t really be a referendum on Brexit nor did anyone guarantee that the U.K. would vote to remain if there were one.
The prospect of a future, possible, Referendum was not high on the list of priorities during Indyref. The debate was around Scotland's future in the EU and the promise was made that the way to ensure our place in the organisation was to vote NO

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Aug 2012
1,441
#89
It's not as silly an idea as it sounds. If a government could use the wave of sexual assault allegations to undermine their enemies, do you really doubt they'd do it? This is especially true when looking at governments seeking to suppress sepratist movements from within. Dirty tricks are to be expected.
Forget the idea of there being some conspiracy, more likely the allegations are genuine and the media has simply hit upon them as a way to make the wider SNP look bad.
 

GogLais

Ad Honorem
Sep 2013
4,634
Wirral
#90
The prospect of a future, possible, Referendum was not high on the list of priorities during Indyref. The debate was around Scotland's future in the EU and the promise was made that the way to ensure our place in the organisation was to vote NO

[
I agree that the debate was primarily about the ease or otherwise of an independent Scotland becoming a member of the EU. At that time the safest way for Scotland to remain in the EU was to stay in the UK. I don’t recall the advocates of independence saying “What if there’s a referendum and what if the vote is to leave?”. They didn’t foresee the future, like many of us, I don’t think they were misled.
 

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