Is Russia controlled by Turkic people (Tatars, Bashkirs, Chuvash etc)?

Is Russia controlled by Turkic people (Tatars, Bashkirs, Chuvash etc)?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • No

    Votes: 15 93.8%

  • Total voters
    16
Nov 2015
1,741
Kyiv
#22
Russia is not controlled by the Turks. The eastern trend of Russia within latest 100 years has other sources. Not ethnic - otherwise I would have to remember that Putin is Veps. That is, he has Finno-Ugric ancestors, like most Russians.

However, the Eastern trend is conditioned by historical reasons, not ethnic ones.

Russia is a state that originally arose as the Moscow tzardom. And the Moscow tzardom was in fact yesterday’s ulus of the Golden Horde, with some differences from other Horde uluses. The horde had a huge impact on the elite of those Russian lands. Moreover, part of their elite were Tatars and Mongols, who did not want to get Islam under Khan Uzbeks and fled to the Russian lands. And the entire Moscow elite did not have a different model of statehood besides the Horde. And the Horde itself was part of a large Mongolian-Chinese-Turk macros, though it is a separate topic.

Muscovy was in the Horde for two and a half centuries, its elite saw in the Horde practically the only available model of a state, and not a single Russian tzar before Peter the Great ever visited other countries. To the heart of the 17th century, the territory of the Horde — almost all with its two former capitals — turned out to be in the midst of Muscovy. With the entire population of the former Horde, with its aristocracy and with everything else. This early Russian state was drawn from the Horde model. Some Russian historians call this kingdom in the 17th century a typical Azitian despotism. So it was. Peter I, and then Catherine II, a 100% ethnic German, tried to turn Russia towards Europe. Similar efforts were made by other emperors of the Russian Empire. But all this ended in the autumn of 1917 with the great Bolshevik pogrom, which de facto returned Russia to the old Moscow standard. And the Horde in it sounded again in its full voice - and loudly to this day
 
Apr 2018
517
India
#24
Well, Russian Tatars were always one of the most "Westernized" and secularized Muslim groups. But I think the only Muslim country were Marxism and Communism had some real popular support was pre-revolutionary Iran. There were even similar movements trying to combine Islam and Marxism. But they were a great failure, as the Islamists "won".

In my opinion, Marxism and Islam are incompatible.
Tudeh was destroyed. However the oppression of an autocratic regime is not a victory IMHO, it's just that Khomeini got away with blood on his hands. Also it makes him and his followers a bunch of 'usurping traitors' actually, as the contribution of Iranian Communists in organizing street level protests defying the Shah is undeniable.

Communism and to a greater extent classical socialism was quite popular in the muslim world back in those days (and probably still is, they just don't show it). But the problem was that it was limited among the educated, intellectuals and the well offs who were actually a minority compared to the larger populace. Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan, South Yemen etc have all been socialist states at one point or another. The main problem was their way of convincing people to adopt socialism was not at all socialistic but outright autocratic, quite in line with earlier Islamic royals. People generally don't respond well to violence/authoritarianism no matter how powerful the state is.

Take pre-1980s Afghanistan for example. The Afghan communists once boasted that under their reign people will stop visiting mosques withing three years. They never thought that for a poor, uneducated Afghan goat farmer Islam is the only thing that stands between his self consciousness as a civilized man and an anthropomorphic mindless two-legged animal. And they just tried to take it away. It's actually a terrible thing to do to a human being if done by violence/oppression only without any reeducation. They misunderstood the correlation between Bolshevik violence during the red terror and the success of the October Revolution as a cause-effect phenomenon, completely ignoring the fact that the Bolsheviks had an enormous popular support. Radical Islamists took the advantage of this and the country went to hell.

Similarly, Baathists are also socialist Arabs, at least nominally. But the leaders never got over their petty interests and inherent authoritarianism. The results are visible to all.

Bottom line, Islam is incompatible to almost any other ideology, but muslims are not. All they need are good leaders, neither Megalomaniacs nor daydreaming flag officers.
 

Isleifson

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,778
Lorraine tudesque
#26
Da. Un peu.

I have been reading Gorki in a german translation. There is far more russian translated in german then in english.

I have been in Gorki, now Nizhny Novgorod too.
 
Likes: Decembrist

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