Is St Paul an historical person.

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Closed
Jul 2017
842
Crete
#41
Specifically, how does Josephus support your comments about someone named "Luke" inventing someone named "Paul"?
1st century history surrounding the New Testament is completely distorted, I don't know who is real or isn't.

'Josephus' is theoretically, the primary source of history of 'Judea' , The authors of the New Testament would have need this too construct their narratives . considering how inaccurate Judean geography is in Marks' Gospel, which are corrected in Luke' Gospel. ( Did Josephus rewrite the Gospel of Mark, His he Luke ? )


Here are parallels between Josephus and Jesus (most of which are in Luke/Matthew)

From The Writings of Josephus:
1. At "about fourteen years of age,"
he (Josephus) was commanded by all
for the love I had to learning (Vita 9)
2. 12 Jews of Caesaria are sent as a
delegation to Ecbatana (Vita 54-55)
3. 70 messengers are sent from Ecbatana to Caesarea (Vita 56)
4. During this time, before his purported surrender to the Romans, "I
was now about thirty years old" (Vita
8O)
5. Josephus’ quarters were in a
Galilean village named Cana (Vita 86)
6. Josephus told his friends that "in
three days time" he would "quit the
district and go home" (Vita 205)
7. Jesus, chief magistrate of Tiberias,
accuses Josephus of embezzling 20
pieces of gold (Vita 294-297). They
laid hands on him and attempted to
kill him (Vita 302)
8. Josephus notices three of his acquaintances had been crucified, so he
entreats Titus to take them down; two
of them die but one recovers (Vita
420-421

From The Gospels:
1. When Jesus was twelve years old his
parents found him after three days in
the Temple conversing with the
teachers (Mat 2.46)
2. Jesus appoints and sends out 12
apostles to preach and heal (Mat.
10.2,5)
3. Jesus appointed 70 others and sent
them ahead of him (Luke 10.1)
4. Jesus commenced his ministry when
he was 30 years of age (Luke 3.23)
5. Jesus attended a wedding in Cana
(John 2.1-2) then came to Cana
again (John 4.46)
6. Jesus prophecies he will be raised up
on the third day (Mat. 16.21)
7. Judas goes to the priests and obtains
30 pieces of silver for betraying Jesus
(Mat. 26.14-16)
8. Two robbers were crucified on
either side of Jesus (Mat. 18.38). Only
Jesus rises (Mat. 28.6)
 
Jul 2017
842
Crete
#42

Tacitus
The Jews are said to have been refugees from the island of Crete who settled in the remotest corner of Libya in the days when, according to the story, Saturn was driven from his throne by the aggression of Jupiter

The Bible, also claims that 'Philistines' originated in Caphtor ( Crete ) and it lists them as sons of Egypt ( Gen 10:14)

This transition is defined by the appearance of Mycenaean LH IIIC:1b (Philistine) pottery in the coastal plain of Palestine, generally assumed to correspond to the settlement of Sea People there at the 8th year of Ramesses III.[25] Radiocarbon dates and other external evidence permit this transition to be as late as 1100 BC, compared to the conventional dating of c. 1179 BC
There was also a famine during the reign of Ramses III, Egyptologist have attributed this to the Eruption of Hekla 3 , So a possible reason why the Sea People migrated South. into Libya and Egypt.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/11/061121232204.htm
 

Jax

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
6,208
Seattle
#43
In terms of historical evidence I agree with R. Carrier that there is probably more for Paul the Apostle than there is for Jesus. (see my previous post)

Here is the link to one of RC's posts on Paul TA: It is good for some source material and will probably clear up some things I said in my previous post.
The Historicity of Paul the Apostle - Richard Carrier
Thank you for that link Cepheus, I will be spending some time with that information. :)

Cheers!
 
Mar 2017
3,238
United States
#45
Well, Magus seems a little more over-the-top with it. I think he's either a troll with way too much time on his hands, or he actually believes this stuff, which would be more disturbing. Using the same methodology, I could argue that the Exodus happened in America, because the Mohave desert starts with Mo, as does Moses, and it overlaps Utah and the Mormons also start with Mo and they claim the Native Americans were the lost tribes of Israel. The Great Salt Lake was like the Dead Sea in Israel--rhymes with "Red Sea". Aztecs and Maya had pyramids, so they must have been the Egyptians mentioned in the Hebrew Bible, so there!
My sentiments exactly. It should be noted, that this gentleman "Magus" hasn't even been on the forum for a month, and every single thread and post of his has been a polemical diatribe against Christianity. This may, justifiably in my opinion, lead one to ask whether his reason for being here is to pursue a particular agenda?

And if so, perhaps the moderators would like to know about it?
 
Dec 2011
1,875
#46
Tacitus
The Jews are said to have been refugees from the island of Crete who settled in the remotest corner of Libya in the days when, according to the story, Saturn was driven from his throne by the aggression of Jupiter

The Bible, also claims that 'Philistines' originated in Caphtor ( Crete ) and it lists them as sons of Egypt ( Gen 10:14)



There was also a famine during the reign of Ramses III, Egyptologist have attributed this to the Eruption of Hekla 3 , So a possible reason why the Sea People migrated South. into Libya and Egypt.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/11/061121232204.htm
Magus, you should probably just stop posting on this subject for now.

You wrote that you had "documentation" and this post indicates that you do not have documentation.

Furthermore, I found your quote in wiki and it has nothing to do with a Palestinian exodus. LINK/RE: (see Chronological dispute)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_III

I also see that this is where you found the Hekla 3 link, which, again, has nothing to do with your statement that:

Palestinians where documented exodeeing out of Egypt during the reign of Ramses III
To put it nicely, your references to source material to support your statements are not appropriate. Honestly, you should refrain from going down this path and take some time to become familiar with what is generally expected from members here in terms of supporting your theories.

Here is a post by one of our moderators that all of us should keep in mind when posting: (Guide to Citing Sources)
http://historum.com/announcements/46025-posting-guide.html#post193717?postcount=2

Have a good one! :)
 
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Jul 2017
842
Crete
#47
The etymological definition of 'Exodus' , from Greek 'Exodos' meaning 'military expedition'
or 'departure' , Did the sea people, one of the whom known as 'PLST' depart Egypt, into Lower Canaan in the 11th Century BCE . 1150 BCE is the earliest historical reference to PLST , recorded again in 1000 BCE (Onomasticon of Amenope), in 900 BCE on the Padiset Statue, 800 BCE on the Nimrud Slab ( Hatti - Amurru - Tyre - Sidon - Humri - Edom - Palastu) .

So the appearance of PLST coincide with the arrival of the Sea people during the reign of Ramses III, I am not sure what the issue is, seems well documented, even Tacitus mentions it.
 
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Jax

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
6,208
Seattle
#48
My sentiments exactly. It should be noted, that this gentleman "Magus" hasn't even been on the forum for a month, and every single thread and post of his has been a polemical diatribe against Christianity. This may, justifiably in my opinion, lead one to ask whether his reason for being here is to pursue a particular agenda?

And if so, perhaps the moderators would like to know about it?
I personally don't care if someone has an agenda, I mean, who doesn't really.

If the person has information to impart then fine. If, as Cepheus in the post above mine points out, the information is incorrect, then that is grounds for dismissal, not for having an agenda per se.
 
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