Is Tyrannosaurus overrated?

specul8

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Oct 2016
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I don't know, but I can only presume it may be an inability to admit errors, even to himself. People are like that.
What about Hoyle ..... why an astronomer got involved in an attempted Archaeopteryx 'de-bunk' ????

Bet he doesnt do that anymore !
 

Corvidius

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Jul 2017
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I don't think he does much of anything now..

But he is an interesting example of how anybody, no matter how bright in their own field, can succumb to odd ideas in other areas.
 

VHS

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Dec 2015
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Florania
Do any people think the hummingbirds are overrated as a family of dinosaurs?
 

starman

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Jan 2014
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Connecticut
I don't think he does much of anything now..

But he is an interesting example of how anybody, no matter how bright in their own field, can succumb to odd ideas in other areas.
I think Ostrom once said he had been looking at the stars too long.:lol:
 

Corvidius

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Jul 2017
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I don't really know much about him so couldn't say.

Anyway, as regards T.rex and it's capabilities, are you familiar with the work of Krauss and Robinson as regards possible hunting techniques against triceratops?
 

starman

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Jan 2014
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Connecticut
Anyway, as regards T.rex and it's capabilities, are you familiar with the work of Krauss and Robinson as regards possible hunting techniques against triceratops?
No, I may not have heard of them. I had some doubts about GSP's suggestions but what do K&R have to say?
 

Corvidius

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Jul 2017
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What they propose, and Robinson is now deceased btw, is that T.rex engaged in the practice of "cow tipping". They saw that modern animals such as cows, horses, bison and rhinos rest with their limbs tucked underneath their bodies, so to get upright they essentially just have to stretch their legs. If they end up on their sides for whatever reason, for instance the notorious practice of cow tipping, or just rolling on the ground, as we see horses do at times, they struggle to get upright. They timed various animals and found it took between 3 and 10 seconds to get upright. Then, and doing a lot of complicated calculations with the presumed body mass for a full grown Triceratops and a full grown T.rex, combined with the speed with which T.rex could charge into the flank of Triceratops without injuring itself, they concluded that T.rex may have hunted Triceratops, and other large prey animals, by ambushing them from the flank and using their body mass, speed, arms and heads, to tip the animal over. Then when it was on the ground and struggling to get up, deliver heavy bites into it's ribs combined with heavy rakes from it's feet.

They propose that it's large head, type of teeth and it's larger than usual feet make this killing strategy possible. They also propose that the purpose of it's arms, small as they were, was to latch on to the upper side of the prey and assist in pushing it over. They do of course go into some detail to explain all this. They do not state that this is the only hunting strategy used by T.rex, or enter into the debate about potential pack hunting, only that this "cow tipping" is a physical possibility. Perhaps this hypothesis has gone cold due to the demise of John Robinson, but it's certainly an interesting proposal.

I cannot find a link to their work and am going by a hard copy.
 
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starman

Ad Honorem
Jan 2014
4,116
Connecticut
What they propose, and Robinson is now deceased btw, is that T.rex engaged in the practice of "cow tipping". They saw that modern animals such as cows, horses, bison and rhinos rest with their limbs tucked underneath their bodies, so to get upright they essentially just have to stretch their legs. If they end up on their sides for whatever reason, for instance the notorious practice of cow tipping, or just rolling on the ground, as we see horses do at times, they struggle to get upright. They timed various animals and found it took between 3 and 10 seconds to get upright. Then, and doing a lot of complicated calculations with the presumed body mass for a full grown Triceratops and a full grown T.rex, combined with the speed with which T.rex could charge into the flank of Triceratops without injuring itself, they concluded that T.rex may have hunted Triceratops, and other large prey animals, by ambushing them from the flank and using their body mass, speed, arms and heads, to tip the animal over. Then when it was on the ground and struggling to get up, deliver heavy bites into it's ribs combined with heavy rakes from it's feet.

They propose that it's large head, type of teeth and it's larger than usual feet make this killing strategy possible. They also propose that the purpose of it's arms, small as they were, was to latch on to the upper side of the prey and assist in pushing it over. They do of course go into some detail to explain all this. They do not state that this is the only hunting strategy used by T.rex, or enter into the debate about potential pack hunting, only that this "cow tipping" is a physical possibility. Perhaps this hypothesis has gone cold due to the demise of John Robinson, but it's certainly an interesting proposal.

I cannot find a link to their work and am going by a hard copy.
Interesting but I don't buy it. IMO a T.rex would just bite the flank or belly of Triceratops without bothering to push it over. One bite could probably cause catastrophic bleeding, or (according to one old study) cause the internal organs to fall out.
Remember how GSP illustrated a T. rex pack attacking a Triceratops herd from behind, with a T.rex about to bite into the flank of one? He said the "cookie cutter" premaxillary teeth inflicted "cup shaped wounds" as opposed to slashes, and one bite could be fatal.
As we now know, Triceratops had large scales resembling scutes but I don't know if they could resist T. rex teeth.
 

Corvidius

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Jul 2017
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Or it would just bite down onto it's spine from above, like them taking chunks from near the base of hadrosaur tails. I'm sure a T.rex, like any other predator, would grab onto whatever part of it's prey it could, though I wonder if it had a specific kill strategy of trying to bite down from above and sever the spinal cord, the hadrosaur bite marks indicating near misses on a moving target. Successful strikes would bring about the kill, and due to T.rex devouring the complete animal, not leave much, if anything, as evidence of how it achieved a kill.

I did find reference to Krauss and Robinson in part of the T.rex wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeding_behaviour_of_Tyrannosaurus#Hunting_strategies