Jesus Christ: A Flavian Invention?

Jul 2019
12
Devon, United Kingdom
I watched a documentary recently, summarising Joseph Atwill's book "Caesar's Messiah". It argues that The Gospels, along with the figure of Jesus himself, were an invention of the Flavian Dynasty and that the life of Jesus as described in the Gospels was a typological representation of Emperor Titus.

I know most Biblical Scholars, even mythicists, have disregarded the research as just plain wrong and I myself find most of the "evidence" quite tenuous; but I was wondering whether you out there have any thoughts, especially as to similarity of Jesus' life and Titus' and the argument that the Romans used this peaceful messiah who proposed loyalty to the Caesar in order to quell rising tensions in the region after the First Jewish-Roman war in 70CE.

(The documentary can be found here:
)
 
Jan 2013
1,120
Toronto, Canada
Ancient people were way better at fraud than we are today. The Romans successfully built one of the world's largest religions on a hoax. The Hitler Diaries didn't even last two years.
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,982
Republika Srpska
If this is true, why did the Romans portray themselves as the antagonists that crucified the Messiah?
 
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Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,982
Republika Srpska
Well it could be argued that they actually portrayed the Jewish religious leaders as those who lead to Jesus' death, in fact the NT describes Pilate not seeing why he should have to execute Jesus
Okay, but the Romans were still the ones that killed Jesus. They could have written that he was killed by the Jewish leaders.
 
Last edited:
Dec 2012
1,562
U.S.A.
Why would the Romans care what a backwater like Palestine thought of them? Pompey walked into the Holy of Holies in the Temple and the Romans later leveled it. I fail to see how portraying themselves as benevolent helps them especially given a quote attributed to Caligula but accurate of Rome's mindset throughout the ages: "Rome cares not if they hate us, so long as they fear us."
 

holoow

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
3,885
Vilnius, Lithuania
If this is true, why did the Romans portray themselves as the antagonists that crucified the Messiah?
In the New Testament Romans were portrayed far more pleasingly than Jews. 'Not even in Israel have I found such great faith', said Jesus to the Roman centurion.
While religious Jews ( e.g. Pharisees) were portrayed as embodiement of all the evil. Even Pontius Pilate is more pleasant than many Jews in the NT ( in some Christian Churches Pontius Pilate and his wife are recognized saints! ).
 
Jul 2017
247
Neverland
I watched a documentary recently, summarising Joseph Atwill's book "Caesar's Messiah". It argues that The Gospels, along with the figure of Jesus himself, were an invention of the Flavian Dynasty and that the life of Jesus as described in the Gospels was a typological representation of Emperor Titus.

I know most Biblical Scholars, even mythicists, have disregarded the research as just plain wrong and I myself find most of the "evidence" quite tenuous; but I was wondering whether you out there have any thoughts, especially as to similarity of Jesus' life and Titus' and the argument that the Romans used this peaceful messiah who proposed loyalty to the Caesar in order to quell rising tensions in the region after the First Jewish-Roman war in 70CE.

(The documentary can be found here:
)
Claims of Jesus' fakeness are popping out of the woodwork like mushrooms each day. It is becoming an industry in its own right.Here's a link below to just one of thousands of such links.

Witness to Jesus? - Philo of Alexandria

The blogger is using Philo of Alexandria - contemporary of Christ, to prove his point, although Jerusalem and Alexandria-Egypt a quite a distance away.
Omiited are more importang ancient sources, like Josephus( 37- 100 AD) and Tacitus( 56 - 120 AD).
The latter 2, not Christians themselves, are honest and concise in their depiction of Christ.
Then there's apostle Paul, who is persecuted at home and abroad by his own jewish compatriots and on one occasion in Judaea is saved by Roman soldiers from the angry mob
yelling and screaming.." He is a disciple of Chrestus".

Deniers point to the Shroud of Turin, supposedly taken out of Constantinople and brought to Italy after the 1204 conquest of the Byzantine capital. Fabric dating puts the make of this shroud in between 1260-1360 ie after the Constantinople events.The Vatican does not validate authenticity, but continue venerating the Shroud, because no modern physicist can explain how the imprinting of the face of the person wrapped in it happened. Plus the outlines of the face is more of a pale European(German,Slav,Celt), rather than a semitic jew.

1569629446090.png

Another favorite theme for deniers is the so called Publius Lentulus letter dating from the 1460s AD. Nobody bothers to mention though, that this letter is only a Copy of another
letter in Greek, that was spirited out of Constantinople in 1421.The Greek letter according to some is dated back to the days of Empereor Diocletan.
And in turn the Greek letter is also a Copy of an original and ancient letter of an Original penned in about of Jesus ministries.It might be an ancient forgery...who knows!?
But in every copy and transaltion we have the ..lost in translation element, ie each copy varies from the original.So medieval terminology were being used in the 1460s copy of the letter. Nothing new !

Critics insist that not only the Lentulus letter is fake, but the very Publius Lentulus is fictitious character. There is another side to this story too. From Roman records we know, that the name Lentuli was a family with distinguished diplomatic and state service in the Levant and Egypt. It is mentioned that Governors(prefects, proconsuls) would have rather addressed the letter to the Emperor himself, but in Roman history, these civil persons would do work on behalf of the Senate too. Here is a link before.


Letter of Lentulus - OrthodoxWiki

I have heard stories of deniers, claiming Jesus and his faithful disciples to have been gays ie homosexuals...They prayed together, walked the missions together and slept together too.
The way things progress, we may soon find out the Jesus and the Apostles are founding members of the World famous Chippendale male strip dancers in the USA