Jobs guarantee with income support in response to technological unemployment?

MarshallBudyonny

Ad Honorem
Apr 2013
7,365
New Verulamium
As far as the taxation debate goes, inheritance tax has got to rank as one of the least moral. A tax levied solely on the basis of personal loss on assets that have already been taxed is morally impermissible.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,803
You're not comparing like for like. The other poster was referring to expenditure as a proportion of individual/household income, not absolute terms.

And I have responded to that.... the poor tend to use basic necessities and consume much less... their major expenditures are rent (no VAT) and food (reduced VAT rate) and they also buy a lot of second hand stuff (no VAT when sold by individuals) so the claim that they pay much more as a % of their income is just an assumption, not a fact.....
In any case why should everyone pay the same proportion of household income ? Plus this is generally not true for any tax, so why single out VAT?
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,803
Surely that's a product of limitations on consumer choice, not their expansion? If VAT raises the amount people pay for a set of goods then trade-offs are inevitable simply because prices are higher? Of course this doesn't account for inflation, wage rises, etc.
Its a choice , unlike for most other taxes which one can do nothing about... With VAT one is in control.....
 

Dan Howard

Ad Honorem
Aug 2014
4,751
Australia
Its a choice , unlike for most other taxes which one can do nothing about... With VAT one is in control.....
Yep. The poor shouldn't be buying food, clothing, furniture, appliances, and entertainment.

Truly rich people pay very little VAT. Their living expenses, housing, and vehicles are paid for with business accounts and trust funds. They create financial constructions that enable them to either get direct exemptions from VAT or get most of the VAT refunded through tax minimisation schemes.
 
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tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,803
Yep. The poor shouldn't be buying food, clothing, furniture, appliances, and entertainment.

Truly rich people pay very little VAT. Their living expenses, housing, and vehicles are paid for with business accounts and trust funds. They create financial constructions that enable them to either get direct exemptions from VAT or get most of the VAT refunded through tax minimisation schemes.
Dont use caricature...

"Truly rich", what are these ? a tiny minority around the world ? less than 0.1% ?

Saying that a tax is not right because 0.1% or less may escape part of it, is a non starter.... because then no tax is right....
 

Dan Howard

Ad Honorem
Aug 2014
4,751
Australia
My father is worth around five million dollars and drives a new Mercedes that his company owns. In Australia only individuals pay GST; companies are completely exempt. So this $100,000 automobile only cost his company around $60,000 because it received a tax deduction of approximately 30% and the 10% GST was fully refunded. He has approximately three million worth of property that is owned by his superannuation trust fund that pays no GST, 15% income tax, and gets to deduct all expenses so most of that 15% tax gets refunded anyway. The result is that his effective income tax rate is well under 10% and his GST rate is effectively NIL. The only GST he pays is what little living expenses that come out of his own pocket that he can't divert through the company.
 
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tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,803
My father is worth around five million dollars and drives a new Mercedes that his company owns. In Australia only individuals pay GST; companies are completely exempt. So this $100,000 automobile only cost his company around $60,000 because it received a tax deduction of approximately 30% and the 10% GST was fully refunded. He has approximately three million worth of property that is owned by his superannuation trust fund that pays no GST, 15% income tax, and gets to deduct all expenses so most of that 15% tax gets refunded anyway. The result is that his effective income tax rate is well under 10% and his GST rate is effectively NIL. The only GST he pays is what little living expenses that come out of his own pocket that he can't divert through the company.
Which goes to show that income tax is not the solution.....

Also Australia is not the world, and tax exemption rules can always be changed
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,877
Portugal
Also Australia is not the world, and tax exemption rules can always be changed
Australia is not the world, but that story could be told in many places around the world. Inclusively in my country or in Spain. How many properties in the Iberian Peninsula are owned by a shell company in Gibraltar, a fiscal paradise? Doesn't this happens in the USA?

And you don’t to be rich or too rich. I know couples in Portugal, Spain and England (middle class/ high middle class) with 2 or 3 vehicles, and none of the vehicles is in their names. They are in the name of a company. It has advantages not only in the moment of the buy, but also in the maintenance, combustible fleet card…
 

Dan Howard

Ad Honorem
Aug 2014
4,751
Australia
Which goes to show that income tax is not the solution.....

Also Australia is not the world, and tax exemption rules can always be changed
And VAT is never the answer. If you want to fix tax revenue, you work on the progressive taxes such as income tax. You don't load up poor people with regressive taxes like VATs.
 
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