Jobs guarantee with income support in response to technological unemployment?

Mar 2014
1,979
Lithuania
#63
VAT is one of the worst taxation systems possible if you are striving for more equal society. It is reasonably easy to collect, but it put largest burden on poorest people. Poorest usually spend all their income buying everyday items and pay VAT on most of their income, rich people spend only minuscule part of their income on buying everyday items, a lot of their income goes to investments etc. So , rich pay very little VAT as proportion of their income.
 
Likes: Edratman
Aug 2014
4,683
Australia
#64
VAT is one of the worst taxation systems possible if you are striving for more equal society. It is reasonably easy to collect, but it put largest burden on poorest people. Poorest usually spend all their income buying everyday items and pay VAT on most of their income, rich people spend only minuscule part of their income on buying everyday items, a lot of their income goes to investments etc. So , rich pay very little VAT as proportion of their income.
Yep.

 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,765
#65
And VAT is never the answer. If you want to fix tax revenue, you work on the progressive taxes such as income tax. You don't load up poor people with regressive taxes like VATs.
VAT (combined with a major reduction of social taxes) IS the answer, because it taxes foreign products and improves competitivity of local products... Income tax is not....

Those "poor people" whoever you think they are , will be better off with better paid jobs IN the country... thats the goal

Also the "regressive/progressive" dichotomy is just an ideological ploy really....
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,765
#66
Australia is not the world, but that story could be told in many places around the world. Inclusively in my country or in Spain. How many properties in the Iberian Peninsula are owned by a shell company in Gibraltar, a fiscal paradise? Doesn't this happens in the USA?

And you don’t to be rich or too rich. I know couples in Portugal, Spain and England (middle class/ high middle class) with 2 or 3 vehicles, and none of the vehicles is in their names. They are in the name of a company. It has advantages not only in the moment of the buy, but also in the maintenance, combustible fleet card…
And that's not a VAT issue.... One does not pay VAT on properties
 

Edratman

Forum Staff
Feb 2009
6,695
Eastern PA
#67
Property taxes in Pennsylvania are the primary source of funding for schools districts. Naturally, because the boundaries of a school district are defined and additional development in the more urban districts is restricted by limited space, property taxes must increase to fund the ever increasing costs.

About a decade ago an active movement developed to eliminate property taxes and substitute a hefty increase in sales taxes to fund the schools. One of the primary arguments repeatedly echoed was that apartment dwellers do not pay property tax. I realized that this was a false point because the apartment owner pays property taxes and that is a component of the rent. (If this is a fair assessment is a different issue.)

Thanks to Google and the absolutely wonderful feature of Google maps which allows you to see an actual picture of every home by the street address, I was able to track down and see where almost all of the most vocal proponents of the property tax elimination lived. It was no surprise to learn that almost every single proponent resided in a huge, expensive home of relatively recent construction. Of course, the assessment and ensuing property taxes are highest on large, expensive homes.

It was easy to see that this is a case of wealthy people trying to reduce their taxes and shift them elsewhere and there is only one remaining door, putting the tax burden on people who are not wealthy.

This example, along with others that I've encountered, mandates that I investigate the supporters of every tax reform proposal that arises. Whenever the prime movers for the next perfect taxation plan are wealthy people, a skeptical analysis is necessary. It is usually pretty easy to find the unspoken and hidden flaws in the plan. They all seem to have one theme, to shift the tax burden from the well off to those that are not financially successful. The wealthy people have the means to fund campaigns to distort the proposal, secure in the knowledge that the vast majority of folks will accept whatever the most vocal source says.

Whenever a new tax plan arises, dig deep and find out who is behind the proposal and figure out who will benefit.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,765
#68
VAT is one of the worst taxation systems possible if you are striving for more equal society. It is reasonably easy to collect, but it put largest burden on poorest people. Poorest usually spend all their income buying everyday items and pay VAT on most of their income, rich people spend only minuscule part of their income on buying everyday items, a lot of their income goes to investments etc. So , rich pay very little VAT as proportion of their income.
Common misconception that has become some kind of mantra

First its an assumption that is actually not proven.

Second why the obsession with "everything has to be proportional" ? You know what ? Poor people spend proportionnally more on food than rich people do.... So what ? should we ask the rich to eat more ? the poor to eat less ? Ugly old and sick people have proportionnally much less sex than beautiful young and healthy people... Should we obsess about that ... and what should be done about it...

Third you've failed to read the previous posts... The proposal is "Cut or eliminate social taxes on salaries and increase VAT instead"..... People here whine about VAT allegedly being unfair... But VAT affects a maximum of 10% of people's SPEND while social taxes on salaries in many european countries affect up to 50% (HALF) of workers REVENUE ( which normally is more than SPEND).. And you know what ? The very rich that keep being cited as examples here dont pay those salary taxes because in most case their income is not salary.....

So if there is a case for a tax that is both unfair and idiotic is the social tax on salary.... which , unlike VAT, is unescapable....
 

Edratman

Forum Staff
Feb 2009
6,695
Eastern PA
#70
An impossible goal. The ratio of non-workers to workers has been shrinking for a century and nothing will stop this trend from continuing.
Advances in medical technology and availability, combined with efficiency improvements in agriculture, manufacturing, transportation, clerical work..... have resulted in a world with many more people than jobs. Dan is right, there is nothing to stop this trend,short of violence.
 

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