Just Ancient Egypt

Corvidius

Ad Honorem
Jul 2017
3,047
Crows nest
I thought this was already well known.

"CAIRO – 16 September 2019: Acclaimed Egyptian archaeologist Zahi Hawass stated that the DNA tests will reveal a lot of information about the death of Tutankhamun and that he will announce to the whole world in 2020 how the golden king died. "

The only thing I can think of is more medical minutia.

Hawass: I will announce how Tutankhamun died in 2020
What I take from this is that the SCA have been holding back information, well this is known at least in the case of the KV35 prince, therefore it puts a question mark over previously released information, including that which appears in "Scanning the Pharaohs" as, by Hawass's announcement, it cannot tell the full story. I wonder what else will emerge, for instance, if the KV35 prince is not mentioned, at all, in any results or the list of mummies tested, yet we know he was, then maybe they also tested Thutmosis IV. He was an obvious candidate to test, and they know this, well, let's see.
 

John B

Ad Honorem
Mar 2016
3,882
Canada
What I take from this is that the SCA have been holding back information, well this is known at least in the case of the KV35 prince, therefore it puts a question mark over previously released information, including that which appears in "Scanning the Pharaohs" as, by Hawass's announcement, it cannot tell the full story. I wonder what else will emerge, for instance, if the KV35 prince is not mentioned, at all, in any results or the list of mummies tested, yet we know he was, then maybe they also tested Thutmosis IV. He was an obvious candidate to test, and they know this, well, let's see.
What is the current issue with the KV35 Prince? To see if he was Tut's brother? A DNA test would tie up a lot of ends. Or open more?
Puzzle of the Unidentified KV35 Mummy: Boy Kings and the Specter of Smenkhkare—Part II
 

Corvidius

Ad Honorem
Jul 2017
3,047
Crows nest
Essentially, he doesn't exist in any meaningful way. When mentioned in works on Amarna or KV35 he is either described as prince Webensenu, son of Amunhotep II, or that he may be crown prince Thutmose. I've not read a single word by any of the published authors about the implications of him being another son of KV35YL, and so a brother of Tutankhamun. I know it would be speculation, but that does not stop any of them speculating on other matters. What's annoying is this total silence on him by SCA and why he is never included in the list of mummies that were tested and scanned, yet we have the photographic and video evidence to prove it. It just doesn't make sense not to release his data, or give an explanation, that very many would like, as to why on earth Thutmosis IV was not tested, if that is in fact the case, and it's difficult to say if he was and that this is another case of a brick wall, for reasons I cannot begin to fathom.

I might as well post this again. It shows him on a table in KV35 having a sample for testing taken by Hawass, Dr Ashraf Selim and a lady whose name I keep forgetting. This is a still from footage shot when the Elder and Younger ladies were also tested. For reasons unknown, in the documentary while they were both shown, he was not, but as in what was shown it was clear that this was KV35, and the same three people were present around the same table and wearing the same gowns, it doesn't take too much brain power to fit this still to that precise day when they were in KV35 filming and testing all three chamber Jc mummies.

 
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John B

Ad Honorem
Mar 2016
3,882
Canada
Essentially, he doesn't exist in any meaningful way. When mentioned in works on Amarna or KV35 he is either described as prince Webensenu, son of Amunhotep II, or that he may be crown prince Thutmose. I've not read a single word by any of the published authors about the implications of him being another son of KV35YL, and so a brother of Tutankhamun. I know it would be speculation, but that does not stop any of them speculating on other matters. What's annoying is this total silence on him by SCA and why he is never included in the list of mummies that were tested and scanned, yet we have the photographic and video evidence to prove it. It just doesn't make sense not to release his data, or give an explanation, that very many would like, as to why on earth Thutmosis IV was not tested, if that is in fact the case, and it's difficult to say if he was and that this is another case of a brick wall, for reasons I cannot begin to fathom.

I might as well post this again. It shows him on a table in KV35 having a sample for testing taken by Hawass, Dr Ashraf Selim and a lady whose name I keep forgetting. This is a still from footage shot when the Elder and Younger ladies were also tested. For reasons unknown, in the documentary while they were both shown, he was not, but as in what was shown it was clear that this was KV35, and the same three people were present around the same table and wearing the same gowns, it doesn't take too much brain power to fit this still to that precise day when they were in KV35 filming and testing all three chamber Jc mummies.

Unless it does not fit an official narrative or throw a wench into official preconceived notions. As far as I know none of the major royal mummies have had a DNA profile taken. Only KV55 and the related Amarna suspects left in the valley. I wish they would do Ramses II while they were at it. That would answer many questions too. It seems hard to get the Egyptologists to let go to the hard sciences. Too much personality involvement and academic posturing.
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,216
Italy, Lago Maggiore
The Documented Ancient Construction Method of The Great Pyramid
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Study well, comment and share.
@Paul Hai
you have posted the same link to the same document 3 times in some minutes in 3 different thread. This is a forum where we discuss, we don't limit our participation to self promotion. Take part to the discussions avoiding to invite members to "study well, comment and share".
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,216
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Regarding the possible presence of Prince Webensenu's mummy in KV35, it was an educated guess of Victor Loret. Being the burial site the tomb of Amenhotep II [Aakheperure], finding shabtis and a canopic jar belonging to Webensenu and being this one AAkheperure's son ... Loret reached the conclusion that the young boy had to be Webensenu.

As in not a few other cases in the field of Egyptology, an educated guess has become for others something near to reality [when not a reality]. The problem is that the nature of the site doesn't allow to accept such a certainty. A cache of mummies presents some obvious difficulties regarding a contextual identification of a body which has been deprived of all.
 

Corvidius

Ad Honorem
Jul 2017
3,047
Crows nest
This is a long standing problem were guesses were made about this that or the other back in the 19th Century, and with lack of hard evidence to overthrow a guess, the guess becomes set in stone, or these days in wiki, where this mummy is described as Webensenu Webensenu - Wikipedia Though It's not really Loret's fault as when he opened the tomb he had no idea who the Jc mummies were, but he did know from shabti that a prince Webensenu had been interred in his father's tomb, and that he had been a juvenile. The mummy in Jc fits bill, but so to does the "Body on the boat", but that got destroyed by robbers soon after the tomb was opened and before a full examination of it carried out. Then there were disarticulated body parts found in the tomb, the "spare arm" in Jc, still surviving, but the other parts, belonging to at least two bodies, are long disappeared it seems, and who where they, nobody knows, or will ever know, but as not part of the royal cache will have been original to the tomb, and therefore relatives of Amunhotep II.
 
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John B

Ad Honorem
Mar 2016
3,882
Canada
This is a long standing problem were guesses were made about this that or the other back in the 19th Century, and with lack of hard evidence to overthrow a guess, the guess becomes set in stone, or these days in wiki, where this mummy is described as Webensenu Webensenu - Wikipedia Though It's not really Loret's fault as when he opened the tomb he had no idea who the Jc mummies were, but he did know from shabti that a prince Webensenu had been interred in his father's tomb, and that he had been a juvenile. The mummy in Jc fits bill, but so to does the "Body on the boat", but that got destroyed by robbers soon after the tomb was opened and before a full examination of it carried out. Then there were disarticulated body parts found in the tomb, the "spare arm" in Jc, still surviving, but the other parts, belonging to at least two bodies, are long disappeared it seems, and who where they, nobody knows, or will ever know, but as not part of the royal cache will have been original to the tomb, and therefore relatives of Amunhotep II.
There are so many storage boxes left in closed or resealed tombs in the valley it is a dogs breakfast. I can't remember how many shows where they had to go hunting into these sites. Not even all the tombs have been properly excavated even to this day. Maybe it is time for the SCA to properly collect and store this material and in the process sort out the mess. At the same time let the hard science people vet the material. Most of these remains were in some way placed out of context long ago when the priests cleaned out the valley.
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,216
Italy, Lago Maggiore
@John B
Salima Ikram has complained about this not a few times. Anyway, as for I know, they are doing something in Egypt: while they are constructing the new enormous Egyptian Museum, they are running a great work of cataloguing of the items forgotten in a great number of depots abandoned to their destiny.

Let's wait and see ...
 

John B

Ad Honorem
Mar 2016
3,882
Canada
In this page from 2010.
"Some have speculated that the mummy on the boat was the founder of the twentieth dynasty Sethnakht because of a reused coffin once manufactured for that king was present in the tomb at the time of discovery. Unfortunately, the mummy was destroyed more than a hundred years ago when the boat was stolen.|
As this was supposedly destroyed at the time the cache was found I do not think the remains were thrown away. The most likely ended up boxed and sent off with the other royals to Cairo. As arms legs head may have survived. As these bulk of the remains were sent to the anatomy school in Cairo fro examination they may have remained in that black hole since then. It is well known a number of royal remains are in this establishment to this day.