Just who were bought to make Mary Mother of God?

Mar 2015
840
Europe
#1
In 431, Council of Ephesos decided, concerning the divine and human natures of Jesus, that they were naturally connected in such a manner as to make Mary mother of God, not just the human baby (Not sure about the ovine nature...)
Nestorius´ supporters were accursed and persecuted. They only remained East of Rome, but there they are persecuted by Mohammedans, Confucians and Lamaists. There are under 500 000, perhaps under 300 000 Nestorians left.
All other Christians believe Mary is Mother of God.
Nestorians accused that the government intervention to Council of Ephesos was bought by bribery done by Pope Cyril of Alexandria.
And there is smoking gun evidence for this. Letter 96, specifying the distribution of bribes:
Cyril of Alexandria buys the government
Letter 96 said:
A catalogue of things dispatched from here to the following who are there, by my lord, your most holy brother Cyril.

To Paul the Prefect: four larger wool rugs, two moderate wool rugs, four place covers, four table cloths, six larger bila (rugs or curtains), six medium sized bila, six stool covers, twelve for doors, two larger caldrons, four ivory chairs, two ivory stools, four persoina (= pews?), two larger tables, two ostriches (= pieces of furniture?); and in order that he would help us in the cause about those matters which were written to him: fifty pounds of gold.

(2) And to his domestic, one wool rug, two rugs, four bila, two stool covers, and one hundred gold coins.

(3) To Marcella, the chambermaid, the same as was dispatched to him, and that she would persuade Augusta by asking her: fifty pounds of gold.

(4) To Droseria, the chambermaid, the same as was dispatched to Marcella, and that she would help her as was written to her: fifty pounds of gold.

(5) To the prefect Chryseros, that he would cease to oppose us, we were forced to dispatch double amounts: six larger wool rugs, four moderate rugs, four larger rugs, eight place covers, six table cloths, six large bila rugs, six medium sized bila, six stool covers, twelve for chairs, four larger caldrons, four ivory chairs, four ivory stools, six persoina, four larger tables, six ostriches; and if he shall have acted in accordance with what were written to him by the most magnificent Aristolaus with the lord Claudianus intervening as mediator: two hundred pounds of gold.

(6) And to Solomon, his domestic, two larger wool rugs, four place covers, four table cloths, four bila, four stool covers, six covers for chairs, six caldrons, two ivory chairs, two ostriches; and just as was written to lord Claudianus, so he may use persuasion to forward the proposal: fifty pounds of gold.

(7) To lady Heleniana, who is [the wife] of the prefect of the praetorian guard, the same in all things which were dispatched to Chryseros, so also to her; and in order that the prefect, persuaded by her, would help us: one hundred pounds of gold. As to her assessor, Florentinus, just as the things sent to Solomon, equally the same also to him and fifty pounds of gold.

(8) And to the other chamberlains customary suppliant gifts have been dispatched.

To Romanus the chamberlain: four larger wool rugs, four place covers, four bila, four stool covers, six covers for chairs, two caldrons, two ivory chairs; and so that he would aid in our cause: thirty pounds of gold.

(9) To Domninus the chamberlain: four larger wool rugs, four larger rugs, four medium sized bila, four table covers, four medium sized bila, six stool covers, six covers for chairs, two larger caldrons, two ivory chairs, two ivory stools, four ostriches; and so that he may help us according to those things which were written to lord Claudianus: fifty pounds of gold.

(10) To Scholasticius, the chamberlain, the same in all things as those which were dispatched to Chryseros: and one hundred pounds of gold. And to Theodore, his domestic according to the promises of lord Claudianus, if he should persuade Scholasticius that he desist from friendships with our adversaries: fifty pounds of gold. We have directed also gifts to him which ought to persuade him that he should think in our favor: two wool rugs, two place covers, four table cloths, four rugs, four stools, six stool covers for chairs, two caldrons, two ostriches.

(11) To the most magnificent Artaba the same in all things as those which were dispatched to Scholasticius both in kinds: and that he would help us as was written to him: one hundred pounds of gold.

(12) To Magister, the same in all things as were dispatched to Artaba, in the same kinds: and one hundred pounds of gold. And to his domestic equally in all things as those dispatched to Rufinus.

(13) And to the quaestor, the same as those things which were destined for Magister: and one hundred pounds of gold. And to his domestic Ablalius equally in all things as Eustathius.

(14) A letter was written by your brother to the most reverend clerics so that all these things be dispatched, if anything was done out of devotion to my holy lord and should happen to be accomplished, and that is what is necessary, with the good will and advice of the lord Philip and the lord Claudianus.
14 specifically described recipients, plus 3 domestics of whom 1 is named, and the bribes to 2 are specified by reference to names not afore described.
All of the 14 specifically described recipients received at least 30 pounds of gold (chamberlain Romanus) to 200 pounds ("To the prefect Chryseros, that he would cease to oppose us, we were forced to dispatch double amounts")
While 3 domestics possibly received small sums (Paul´s domestic 100 gold coins, Magister´s domestic "equally in all things as those dispatched to Rufinus", 2 domestics got 50 pounds each (Solomon domestic of prefect Chryseros and Theodore domestic of chamberlain Scholasticius) - making 3600 gold coins each, compared to the 100 that domestic of prefect Paul got.
What was the job and status of "domestic"? Seeing how his bribe varied from 1/72 to 1/2 of what his employer got?

And what precisely would be the job assignment of "assessor of the wife of pretorian prefect"? "Assessor" generally seemed to be legal assistant to officeholder. But "wife of prefect" was not really an office, or was it? It would have been less of an office than the office of a chambermaid. Even if a lordly household needed a lawyer, would the lawyer be employed by the wife, or by the husband?

What was the legitimate income of the aforesaid officeholders? I see the wages of quaestor quoted as 10 pounds of gold per year, and 5...10 pounds as typical salary for high officials of later Roman Empire. That would make the cash part of the bribes ranging from 3 to 40 years´ salary for the 10 officeholders.

So, precisely who do you bribe to alter the nature of God, how much, and what kind of stuff besides cash?
 
Nov 2016
683
Germany
#4
From "Kriminalgeschichte des Christentums" (Christianity´s Criminal History) by Karlheinz Deschner:

(my translation from German)

The emperor confirmed the decisions of both councils, the "Oriental" and the "Roman". A political masterpiece!
In this decisive phase of the Council, in which Cyril introduced the dogma of the "Mother of God" and "God-bearer", a change of mood was initiated at the court. For Cyril lavished the court freely with riches from the Alexandrian church treasure, and also bribed everyone else who there was to bribe, but everything only "in favor of the threatened faith". The bribery became so expensive that the Alexandrian church, even though heavily rich, had to make pledges and was heavily indebted.
And afterwards this manipulated assembly received the rank of a "Third Ecumenical Council of Ephesus" with claim to infallibility!
The funny thing is that the proclamation of Mary's Motherhood, which is supposedly what it was about, was not definitively defined. This happened only in 433 with the union trade (...)


Karlheinz Deschner - Wikipedia

Christianity's Criminal History by Karlheinz Deschner (an abridged translation of volumes 1-3) : Karlheinz Deschner : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
 
Last edited:

holoow

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
3,763
Vilnius, Lithuania
#5
From "Kriminalgeschichte des Christentums" (Christianity´s Criminal History) by Karlheinz Deschner:

(my translation from German)

The emperor confirmed the decisions of both councils, the "Oriental" and the "Roman". A political masterpiece!
In this decisive phase of the Council, in which Cyril introduced the dogma of the "Mother of God" and "God-bearer", a change of mood was initiated at the court. For Cyril lavished the court freely with riches from the Alexandrian church treasure, and also bribed everyone else who there was to bribe, but everything only "in favor of the threatened faith". The bribery became so expensive that the Alexandrian church, even though heavily rich, had to make pledges and was heavily indebted.
And afterwards this manipulated assembly received the rank of a "Third Ecumenical Council of Ephesus" with claim to infallibility!
The funny thing is that the proclamation of Mary's Motherhood, which is supposedly what it was about, was not definitively defined. This happened only in 433 with the union trade (...)


Karlheinz Deschner - Wikipedia

Christianity's Criminal History by Karlheinz Deschner (an abridged translation of volumes 1-3) : Karlheinz Deschner : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
I have read that this work was criticized by some scholars.
 
May 2011
2,894
Rural Australia
#6
Toss the cash into the air. God will keep how much he wants.
Perhaps also, the culture upon which Christianisation was perpetuated wanted to retain the vestiges of their mother goddess?

Cyril of Alexandria was as corrupt as ever. The sychophantic corruption of the Constantinople court was only temporarily flushed by Julian,.



"It has been said that though God cannot alter the past, historians can;
it is perhaps because they can be useful to Him in this respect
that He tolerates their existence."


~ Samuel Butler (1835-1902) Erewhon Revisited