Karl Marx's contribution to the modern anti-semitism (and racism)

Nov 2017
866
Győr
#21
Historically to sustain that a Jewish ethnicity exists for real ... well, that's not that correct. The Jewish People is a kind of mix built on a filtered selection. If you visit Israel, meeting Jews from Russia, Europe, America, Africa ... you will realize that a Jewish ethnicity isn't.
Just a hard fact: Jewis fulfil the criteria of ethnic group more than most of the European "ethnic" groups.

Jewish is a real ethnic group, and their ethnicity is much existent than the "ethnicity" of a German and French (which are only modern period products). Try to share loudly your (laughable) opinion about non-existent Jewish ethnicity in the streets of Tel-Aviv. I do not guarantee that you can avoid even physical attrocities. They would (correctly) interpret (this nonsense) as an agressive attack on their identity. Next time learn population genetics too.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,933
Lago Maggiore, Italy
#22
Without clues? The guy wrote an entire text disparaging Jews. Some scholars have interpreted this as mere hyperbole, but he does indeed not only make antisemitic statements in his letters, as the link in the OP shows, he also rejected his own "Jewishness". The latter, of course, is not evidence of him being antisemitic in itself, but Marx' self-perception does hint that your argument on the statistics is problematic.
Have you ever discussed with Jews? Jews are hypercritical about themselves [even more than Italians, it was a great surprise for me!].

Today there is a political side in Israel trying and "moving" Marx towards the group of the evil guys. It's licit from a political perspective, but from a historical perspective black and white are not categories, history is made by a nice and kind scale of grays. I could mention Daver Acher among who is transforming Marx in a monster [while early Israel was a Marxist state more near to USSR than to US, btw].

Usually I tend to reject historical revisionism.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,933
Lago Maggiore, Italy
#23
Just a hard fact: Jewis fulfil the criteria of ethnic group more than most of the European "ethnic" groups.

Jewish is a real ethnic group, and their ethnicity is much existent than the "ethnicity" of a German and French (which are only modern period products). Try to share loudly your (laughable) opinion about non-existent Jewish ethnicity in the streets of Tel-Aviv. I do not guarantee that you can avoid even physical attrocities. They would (correctly) interpret (this nonsense) as an agressive attack on their identity. Next time learn population genetics too.
I've got Jewish friends in Israel and they don't mind about "genetics" ... and to say all, there are Jewish historians sustaining that Jews were Canaanites ... so they are not that different from Palestinians and the others in the area. Read the works by Israeli Finkelstein, if you want to have an updated idea about what serious Jewish scholars think about the past of their People [less or more "chosen"].
 

Tulun

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
3,651
Western Eurasia
#24
So if a Jewish person change religion, than he will lost his ethnicity? Historically strange idea. Read about Contemporary movements. Jewish Christian - Wikipedia
I don't know was it considered to be an ethnicity or religion in Prussia in his time (by the Prussians or the Jewish communities themselves)?

Anyway, it would be more interesting to widen the scope how big contribution had the 19th century socialist movement in general to modern antisemitism, it was a commonly held notion before and parallel to Marx among other leftist thinkers too, that equated the finance capitalists with Jews. Fourier, Proudhon, Bakunin etc... Marx was part of a bigger "tradition", not a starter of it (and not even the most "rabid").
 
Nov 2017
866
Győr
#26
I've got Jewish friends in Israel and they don't mind about "genetics" ... and to say all, there are Jewish historians sustaining that Jews were Canaanites ... so they are not that different from Palestinians and the others in the area.
Pure logical fallacy: Your logical fallacy is anecdotal

Read the works by Israeli Finkelstein, if you want to have an updated idea about what serious Jewish scholars think about the past of their People [less or more "chosen"].


Finkelstein is a famous anti-semite, the best example for self-hating Jew.

Jews in Israel (and Israel state) consider themself an ethnic group. If you will learn about population genetics, you will understand that they fulfil the ethnic criterias more than an "ethnic" German in Germany or a French in France.
 
Last edited:
Oct 2013
13,160
Europix
#28
... Yes it is relevant. Theodoric even confused/blended the fascism and national socialist nazi ideas.
Nope.

In Theodoric's post the subject was influence.

In Your post the subject was ethnicity.

In Your reply You didn't referred (be it approving or contesting) the influence of different persons/ideologies/movements but You referred to the ethnicity/personality/character of a certain person.

So it is irrelevant, as You are talking about a different subject.
 
Dec 2011
1,295
#29
Have you ever discussed with Jews? Jews are hypercritical about themselves [even more than Italians, it was a great surprise for me!].


Today there is a political side in Israel trying and "moving" Marx towards the group of the evil guys. It's licit from a political perspective, but from a historical perspective black and white are not categories, history is made by a nice and kind scale of grays. I could mention Daver Acher among who is transforming Marx in a monster [while early Israel was a Marxist state more near to USSR than to US, btw].

Usually I tend to reject historical revisionism.
Might be, but does this have anything to do with the question of whether Marx was an antisemite?
 
Likes: janossyjanos
Nov 2017
866
Győr
#30
I've got Jewish friends in Israel and they don't mind about "genetics" ...
Pure logical fallacy: Your logical fallacy is anecdotal

and to say all, there are Jewish historians sustaining that Jews were Canaanites ... so they are not that different from Palestinians and the others in the area. Read the works by Israeli Finkelstein, if you want to have an updated idea about what serious Jewish scholars think about the past of their People [less or more "chosen"].[/QUOTE]
Nope.

In Theodoric's post the subject was influence.

In Your post the subject was ethnicity.


The main topic is about influence, but In that exact conversation the subject was both ethnicity and influence.

In Your reply You didn't referred (be it approving or contesting) the influence of different persons/ideologies/movements but You referred to the ethnicity/personality/character of a certain person.
Your interpretation of text did not develop. He mentioned exact persons so I answered to him.

So it is irrelevant, as You are talking about a different subject.
No, you can't follow the conversations (due to text interpretation problems)
 

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