Krishna was invented to rival Buddha

Mar 2013
410
India
#1
Around the 2nd Century AD when Buddhism was in its peak popularity in the Indian subcontinent, and the Brahmins had also established themselves in majority of the parts of India for a few centuries, though still as a minority and elite race very different from the native cultures of natives of India. While the Shramanic religions were well established among the native Indians with monasteries, stupas and temples, most of the Brahmins were still learning their own religious and mythological literature and indulging in Vedic rituals and magic.

Since the popularity of Buddhism was enormous, something had to be done about it. So Brahmins created a parallel myth to the Buddha. Krishna, as a human-god was born, a completely new canon was written (Bhagavad Gita) taking ideas from Buddhist literature. The new book (Gita) was appended into Mahabharata to establish sanctity of its origin. Many ideas taken from Shramanic thought, which had started to influence the Vedic peoples a few generations earlier itself, were now added into the Brahmanic literature with new Upanishads and other literature. But no other text acts as the steep transition of though among the Indo-Aryans from their ritualistic religious practices to the more ascetic ideals than the Gita in which Krishna introduced concepts like Karma, rebirth, Nirvana etc. A few generations later, the Brahmins had started to call these ideas as their own.

Some of the similarity between Buddhism and the laws of Krishna as laid in Gita is so starking as to erase any further doubts of one having influenced the other. Many scholars have done comparisons between the two. For example, the parable of the Prodigal's son, which is a whole chapter in Lotus Sutra, is repeated by Krishna in Lotus Sutra in almost a word to word similarity. The only difference is that, aside fom the Shramanic ideas, now the Gita again propounds the theory of varna and of how Brahmins stand at the top of the ladder. Although it doesn't explicitly state that the Varnas and divisions are by birth, it can be easily implied from various verses, which means it was still indirectly supported by Brahmins.

"A number of ideas in Gita", as Kashi Nath Upadhyaya says, "are borrowed from the Buddhist Nikayas", more, "it has assimilated all those Buddhist elements which could be conveniently fitted into its scheme". It is on the other hand more appropriate that of the numerous pieces of Brahmanic literature, the Bhagavat Gita has made the maximum absorption from Buddhism. In his "History of Indian civilization" (Vol. 1, pp 282-283), Radha Kamal Mukherjee brand the ideas transported from Saddharma-pundarika sutra (Lotus sutra) to the Gita as parallelism which is only a mild defense for outright plagiarism.

pg 177

"A Social history of India" by S. N. Sadasivan
"As in his brilliant study "Early Buddhism and the Bhagavad Gita", Kashi Nath Upadhyaya says, " when we compare the yoga of Buddhism with the yoga described in Yogasutra of Patanjali, the similarities are so striking that they hardly leave any doubt regarding the one being influenced by the other"

- " A Social history of India" by Sadasivan
The scholar Kashi Nath Upadhyaya wrote a whole book - "Early Buddhism and Bhagavad Gita", comparing the Gita with early Buddhist ideas, which shed a whole light of the deep influences the former had for latter.


However, somewhere down the line (sometimes around when Mahayana was very popular), when the Buddha could not be ignored at all, he was added as an avatar of Vishnu, with the caveat that he had deliberately come down to Earth "to deceive the demons/Asuras and deviate them away from Holy Vedas by preaching heretic doctrine". Of course, it was also to show Buddhism as being a subset of Brahmanism. But not all sects agreed to this, which is evident from the fact that some other puranas do not show Buddha as a Vishnu avatar.
 
Nov 2012
766
deepest recesses of your anus
#2
Around the 2nd Century AD when Buddhism was in its peak popularity in the Indian subcontinent, and the Brahmins had also established themselves in majority of the parts of India for a few centuries, though still as a minority and elite race very different from the native cultures of natives of India. While the Shramanic religions were well established among the native Indians with monasteries, stupas and temples, most of the Brahmins were still learning their own religious and mythological literature and indulging in Vedic rituals and magic.

Since the popularity of Buddhism was enormous, something had to be done about it. So Brahmins created a parallel myth to the Buddha. Krishna, as a human-god was born, a completely new canon was written (Bhagavad Gita) taking ideas from Buddhist literature. The new book (Gita) was appended into Mahabharata to establish sanctity of its origin. Many ideas taken from Shramanic thought, which had started to influence the Vedic peoples a few generations earlier itself, were now added into the Brahmanic literature with new Upanishads and other literature. But no other text acts as the steep transition of though among the Indo-Aryans from their ritualistic religious practices to the more ascetic ideals than the Gita in which Krishna introduced concepts like Karma, rebirth, Nirvana etc. A few generations later, the Brahmins had started to call these ideas as their own.

Some of the similarity between Buddhism and the laws of Krishna as laid in Gita is so starking as to erase any further doubts of one having influenced the other. Many scholars have done comparisons between the two. For example, the parable of the Prodigal's son, which is a whole chapter in Lotus Sutra, is repeated by Krishna in Lotus Sutra in almost a word to word similarity. The only difference is that, aside fom the Shramanic ideas, now the Gita again propounds the theory of varna and of how Brahmins stand at the top of the ladder. Although it doesn't explicitly state that the Varnas and divisions are by birth, it can be easily implied from various verses, which means it was still indirectly supported by Brahmins.





The scholar Kashi Nath Upadhyaya wrote a whole book - "Early Buddhism and Bhagavad Gita", comparing the Gita with early Buddhist ideas, which shed a whole light of the deep influences the former had for latter.


However, somewhere down the line (sometimes around when Mahayana was very popular), when the Buddha could not be ignored at all, he was added as an avatar of Vishnu, with the caveat that he had deliberately come down to Earth "to deceive the demons/Asuras and deviate them away from Holy Vedas by preaching heretic doctrine". Of course, it was also to show Buddhism as being a subset of Brahmanism. But not all sects agreed to this, which is evident from the fact that some other puranas do not show Buddha as a Vishnu avatar.
Very informative post Rakshasha. I was wondering what role did the Jains play in influencing Gita. Also of the six orthodox darshanas of Hinduism which do you think were most affected by Sramanic thought? I agree Advaita Vedanta is heavily influenced by Madhyamika Buddhism but what about Samkhya and Nyaya?
 

Vajra

Ad Honorem
May 2013
4,332
India
#3
Around the 2nd Century AD when Buddhism was in its peak popularity in the Indian subcontinent, and the Brahmins had also established themselves in majority of the parts of India for a few centuries, though still as a minority and elite race very different from the native cultures of natives of India. While the Shramanic religions were well established among the native Indians with monasteries, stupas and temples, most of the Brahmins were still learning their own religious and mythological literature and indulging in Vedic rituals and magic.

Since the popularity of Buddhism was enormous, something had to be done about it. So Brahmins created a parallel myth to the Buddha. Krishna, as a human-god was born, a completely new canon was written (Bhagavad Gita) taking ideas from Buddhist literature. The new book (Gita) was appended into Mahabharata to establish sanctity of its origin. Many ideas taken from Shramanic thought, which had started to influence the Vedic peoples a few generations earlier itself, were now added into the Brahmanic literature with new Upanishads and other literature. But no other text acts as the steep transition of though among the Indo-Aryans from their ritualistic religious practices to the more ascetic ideals than the Gita in which Krishna introduced concepts like Karma, rebirth, Nirvana etc. A few generations later, the Brahmins had started to call these ideas as their own.

Some of the similarity between Buddhism and the laws of Krishna as laid in Gita is so starking as to erase any further doubts of one having influenced the other. Many scholars have done comparisons between the two. For example, the parable of the Prodigal's son, which is a whole chapter in Lotus Sutra, is repeated by Krishna in Lotus Sutra in almost a word to word similarity. The only difference is that, aside fom the Shramanic ideas, now the Gita again propounds the theory of varna and of how Brahmins stand at the top of the ladder. Although it doesn't explicitly state that the Varnas and divisions are by birth, it can be easily implied from various verses, which means it was still indirectly supported by Brahmins.





The scholar Kashi Nath Upadhyaya wrote a whole book - "Early Buddhism and Bhagavad Gita", comparing the Gita with early Buddhist ideas, which shed a whole light of the deep influences the former had for latter.


However, somewhere down the line (sometimes around when Mahayana was very popular), when the Buddha could not be ignored at all, he was added as an avatar of Vishnu, with the caveat that he had deliberately come down to Earth "to deceive the demons/Asuras and deviate them away from Holy Vedas by preaching heretic doctrine". Of course, it was also to show Buddhism as being a subset of Brahmanism. But not all sects agreed to this, which is evident from the fact that some other puranas do not show Buddha as a Vishnu avatar.
No one is denying that Buddhism influenced Bhagavad Gita,but Krishna definitely predates Buddha,because he finds mention in Chandogya Upanishad,composed much earlier than Buddha because it is mentioned in early Nikayas.

Buddhism is not subsect of Brahminism,but it is a subsect of Indic faiths.Brahminism itself is a subsect of Indic faiths,so is Vaishnavism,Shaktism,Shaivism,Jainism,Charvaka,Tantricism,Vedantism,Sikhism,Ajivika,
Yogism,Samkhya,Nyaya,Vaisheshika,Mimamsa and every other philosophical schools and faiths that i have missed.

Term "Hinduism" is just a mere umbrella term for ALL Indic faiths and philosophies.

And i have already proven that roots of Karma, Punarjanma, Moksha/Nirvana etc date back to the Vedic age in our past discussions.
 
Last edited:

Vajra

Ad Honorem
May 2013
4,332
India
#4
Very informative post Rakshasha. I was wondering what role did the Jains play in influencing Gita. Also of the six orthodox darshanas of Hinduism which do you think were most affected by Sramanic thought? I agree Advaita Vedanta is heavily influenced by Madhyamika Buddhism but what about Samkhya and Nyaya?
Buddhism influenced many Indian philosophical schools,and Buddhism itself was influenced by Vedanta,You can find the concept of union with Brahman in early Nikayas of Theravada sect(oldest surviving Buddhist school out there).
 

tornada

Ad Honoris
Mar 2013
15,385
India
#6
Around the 2nd Century AD when Buddhism was in its peak popularity in the Indian subcontinent, and the Brahmins had also established themselves in majority of the parts of India for a few centuries, though still as a minority and elite race very different from the native cultures of natives of India. While the Shramanic religions were well established among the native Indians with monasteries, stupas and temples, most of the Brahmins were still learning their own religious and mythological literature and indulging in Vedic rituals and magic.

Since the popularity of Buddhism was enormous, something had to be done about it. So Brahmins created a parallel myth to the Buddha. Krishna, as a human-god was born, a completely new canon was written (Bhagavad Gita) taking ideas from Buddhist literature. The new book (Gita) was appended into Mahabharata to establish sanctity of its origin. Many ideas taken from Shramanic thought, which had started to influence the Vedic peoples a few generations earlier itself, were now added into the Brahmanic literature with new Upanishads and other literature. But no other text acts as the steep transition of though among the Indo-Aryans from their ritualistic religious practices to the more ascetic ideals than the Gita in which Krishna introduced concepts like Karma, rebirth, Nirvana etc. A few generations later, the Brahmins had started to call these ideas as their own.

Some of the similarity between Buddhism and the laws of Krishna as laid in Gita is so starking as to erase any further doubts of one having influenced the other. Many scholars have done comparisons between the two. For example, the parable of the Prodigal's son, which is a whole chapter in Lotus Sutra, is repeated by Krishna in Lotus Sutra in almost a word to word similarity. The only difference is that, aside fom the Shramanic ideas, now the Gita again propounds the theory of varna and of how Brahmins stand at the top of the ladder. Although it doesn't explicitly state that the Varnas and divisions are by birth, it can be easily implied from various verses, which means it was still indirectly supported by Brahmins.





The scholar Kashi Nath Upadhyaya wrote a whole book - "Early Buddhism and Bhagavad Gita", comparing the Gita with early Buddhist ideas, which shed a whole light of the deep influences the former had for latter.


However, somewhere down the line (sometimes around when Mahayana was very popular), when the Buddha could not be ignored at all, he was added as an avatar of Vishnu, with the caveat that he had deliberately come down to Earth "to deceive the demons/Asuras and deviate them away from Holy Vedas by preaching heretic doctrine". Of course, it was also to show Buddhism as being a subset of Brahmanism. But not all sects agreed to this, which is evident from the fact that some other puranas do not show Buddha as a Vishnu avatar.
I'm pretty sure Krsna as a deity predates the 2nd Century AD. Everybody knows that the Gita was probably a later addition to the Mahabharata story But that said, so what if the Bhagvad Gita borrows from Buddhist Tradition. Why are you so defensive about it? It's not like IP Laws existed back then.
 
Nov 2012
766
deepest recesses of your anus
#7
Buddhism influenced many Indian philosophical schools,and Buddhism itself was influenced by Vedanta,You can find the concept of union with Brahman in early Nikayas of Theravada sect(oldest surviving Buddhist school out there).
What? Wow are you serious? That defeats the whole purpose of Buddhism. I want Buddhist scholars to participate. There was this member Indrajala who is a PhD in Buddolhogy that seems very knowledgeable.
 

Vajra

Ad Honorem
May 2013
4,332
India
#8
Why are you so defensive about it? It's not like IP Laws existed back then.
I'm getting sick and tired of these "Buddhism vs Hinduism" threads.When do these trolls realize that "Hinduism" is not a unified religion to begin with?And Buddhism didn't all of the sudden fall down from the sky.
 

Vajra

Ad Honorem
May 2013
4,332
India
#9
What? Wow are you serious? That defeats the whole purpose of Buddhism. I want Buddhist scholars to participate. There was this member Indrajala who is a PhD in Buddolhogy that seems very knowledgeable.
Yes bro, i am serious and I don't need any PhD,i just need to search the Buddhist Suttas,both in Pali and English.

Original Buddhist schools(Hinayana) was uprooted by newly emerged Buddhist schools themselves.

Read my posts here.


See post #8 onwards.

http://historum.com/religion/58299-buddhism-not-derivative-brahmanism.html
 

tornada

Ad Honoris
Mar 2013
15,385
India
#10
I'm getting sick and tired of these "Buddhism vs Hinduism" threads.When do these trolls realize that "Hinduism" is not a unified religion to begin with?And Buddhism didn't all of the sudden fall down from the sky.
It's not that even. It's Rakshasa's pet project. Start as many threads about the nefarious Brahmins as you can. Reading him in totum makes one rather proud of being a Brahmin. They make Moriarty and Satan look like innocent puppies
 

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