Largest possible Israel?

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,054
Italy, Lago Maggiore
The map that you linked to shows parts of the Sinai, Lebanon, and Syria as a part of Israel, though. Did Zionists ever claim to capture these territories as well (I mean plan ahead of time and permanently capture these territories--as opposed to merely using these territories as bargaining chips)?
I don't know enough in deep the Zionist movement to say how much was diffused the idea to create the new state of Israel following one of those models. Anyway, checking the site of the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the map connected with the Balfour Declaration is really similar ... and also lands in modern Lebanon are incorporated https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/AboutIsrael/Maps/Pages/The-Balfour-Declaration.aspx.
 
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Edratman

Forum Staff
Feb 2009
6,702
Eastern PA
The Jewish Antiquities, a document of somewhat questionable accuracy, written by the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, describes Alexanders campaign against Tyre, Gaze and and his subsequent march on Jerusalem.

Alexander the Great visits Jerusalem - Livius

It is easy to see that the Mediterranean coast was not controlled by the Jews from this campaign. The writings also describe an encounter with the Sidonians, who said they were Hebrews, but not Jews and their city was called Shechem.

I infer that Jerusalem was merely a city state with a very limited land area, not even extending the 30 miles to the coast. Also there were competing city states of the Hebrew faith and most likely that the Hebrews of the time thought Jews described the residents of Jerusalem, not all the practitioners of Mosaic law.

That would mean that at the time of Alexander, the historical range of Israel did not reach the Mediterranean coast and probably did not extend much further east than the territory controlled by a city state.
 
Dec 2018
113
North Dublin
I am pretty sure its expansion has yet to end. They seem to start a new conflict every few months.
 

macon

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
4,074
Slovenia, EU
You obviously don't know much about the history of Crimea, even at the end of the 19th Century Russians made up less than a third of the population of the land, and there were more Crimean Tatars (who now make up barely more than 10%). The Russians didn't even control it until it was conquered by them in 1783. Classic example of western imperialism (or any other kind of imperialism, that was the way of the world just about everywhere).
Yes, yes, poor Crimmean Tatar slavers, looters and killers for centuries before Russian conquest of their bandit state. They are a clear proof that white imperialism (from when are Russians westerners?) was not so bad because some other imperialists would have slaughtered them (Chinese in Dzungaria come to my mind).
 
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Menshevik

Ad Honorem
Dec 2012
9,282
here
if there were no Holocaust, it's not clear a Jewish state in Palestine would have been created at all.
Maybe, maybe not. Prior to WWII, there were already the makings of a Jewish state in Palestine. There was already friction between all parties involved. Britain wasn't going to stay forever, regardless of WWII. I can see
Israel becoming a country without the Holocaust.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,922
SoCal
Maybe, maybe not. Prior to WWII, there were already the makings of a Jewish state in Palestine. There was already friction between all parties involved. Britain wasn't going to stay forever, regardless of WWII. I can see
Israel becoming a country without the Holocaust.
Agreed.

Yes, yes, poor Crimmean Tatar slavers, looters and killers for centuries before Russian conquest of their bandit state. They are a clear proof that white imperialism (from when are Russians westerners?) was not so bad because some other imperialists would have slaughtered them (Chinese in Dzungaria come to my mind).
Were the Dzungars slaughtered because they were slavers?
 

macon

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
4,074
Slovenia, EU
Agreed.


Were the Dzungars slaughtered because they were slavers?
They probably were having also such plundering exploits (although they were far from Chinese population centers) but they were for sure slaughtered because of Chinese colonialism and expansionism.
 
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