Leningrad blockade? Siege? Who engineered starvation and death of 700 thousand people?

Who is responsible for starvation and death of 700 thousand people in Leningrad during WW2 ?


  • Total voters
    11
Jul 2016
269
riverside
#1
From Wikipedia:

The Siege of Leningrad (Блокада Ленинграда) was a prolonged military blockade undertaken from the south by the Army Group North of Nazi Germany against the Russian city of Leningrad (St. Petersburg) on the Eastern Front in World War II. The Finnish army invaded from the north, co-operating with the Germans until they had recaptured territory lost in the recent Winter War, but refused to make further approaches to the city.

The siege started on 8 September 1941, when the last road to the city was severed. Although the Soviet forces managed to open a narrow land corridor to the city on 18 January 1943, the siege was not lifted until 27 January 1944, 872 days after it began. It was one of the longest and most destructive sieges in history, and possibly the costliest in casualties suffered. Some historians classify it as genocide.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/w...ty-That-Would-Not-Die-Siege-of-Leningrad2.jpg


Truly horrific events for ordinary citizens ... starvation, murders to eat other person's flesh, etc...



From recent Russian-language publications
Блокады Ленинграда немцами не было. Развенчание советского мифа

Despite significant efforts of Russian lawyers accusing German government in the siege of Leningrad, these claims did not go through... The Nuremberg process dismissed the claims.

According to these recent publications and witness accounts, it was another artificial starvation and extermination of Leningrad population by the Russian authorities.

The same old scheme of killing and taking their property including jewelry, homes, etc. This is not the first publication where Commissars had luxurious life in the "besieged" Leningrad. The article shows detailed list of excellent food assortment for the local authorities and their families.

If you have any related documents, details, witness accounts, etc. please share them on this thread.

Also, please share your vote - who engineered this starvation and extermination of civilians?
 
Last edited:

macon

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
3,991
Slovenia, EU
#3
Two great artists died because of a hunger there: writer Daniil Harms and painter Pavel Filonov.

Eternal glory to them and to all victims of horror.
 
Likes: dukeofjive
Jul 2017
335
Argentina
#4
Hey Under.
I can't really read in russian. Just a few words.
Does that article provide any good argument for such a statement??
The replacement of urban russians by german colonizers was part of Op Barbarossa since the beggining. And the plan was to kill them by hunger. So, why would it be any different in that city??
 
Jul 2016
269
riverside
#5
maTiasddsm,
I will try to reply to you post.
Google and other translating free services do a good job. I will illustrate it below:

Russian: "Несмотря на все старания московских прокуроров, обвинение в блокаде Ленинграда было снято с Германии в Нюрнберге. А если Германия не виновата, кто же тогда виновен в гибели почти 700 000 петербуржцев? "
Automatic translation, "Despite all the efforts of the Moscow prosecutors, the charge of blockade of Leningrad was dropped from Germany in Nuremberg. And if Germany is not to blame, then who is to blame for the death of almost 700,000 Petersburgers?"

I can only adjust couple phrases, but overall, it is a good instant and free translation by google translate.

Also, one of my main questions ... WHY did the Nuremberg court dismissed the charges against an entity that was so easy to blame and to punish? Why? Any explanation?

Another example of machine translation, from Russian "Он прямо говорил: никакой “Блокады” со стороны немцев никогда не было! В город свободно доставлялись военные, боеприпасы еда и даже такие невиданные изыски как пирожные!
Мало того, пока сотни тысяч “блокированных” петербуржцев тухли как свечи от холода и голода, его приятель снабженец хвастался тем, что уничтожал несвежие просроченные пирожные, которые отказались есть господа комиссары!

Он до слез ухахатывался рассказывая про горы золота, бриллиантов и других ценностей, которые он смог выменять на хлеб!

" to English, "His grandfather directly said: there has never been any “Blockade” on the part of the Germans! The military, ammunition, food and even such unprecedented delights as cakes were freely delivered to the city! Moreover, while hundreds of thousands of “blocked” St. Petersburgers were rotten [dying] like candles from cold and hunger, his friend Provider [meaning authority representative who was responsible for delivery of goods] boasted that he destroyed [ate] the stale expired [creme] cakes, refused by the lords-commissars!

He to tears, grinning [actually he was laughing to teats] telling about the mountains of gold, diamonds and other valuables that he was able to exchange for bread! "

As always, in Russia it was about (1) power and control over lesser humans, (2) taking their lives and possessions, when you wish, and of course to take their apartments - premium residential property in one of the largest European cities. Accumulate your wealth, communist comrades! It is cool to be a lord and to do whatever you want with your slaves. And after that, you write your greasy and sloppy paperwork for Nuremberg and you hope that you will make Germans look bad again, and for that you will annex another parcel of German land (like Prussia-now-Kaliningrad, their possessions, etc.), and as usual ... monetary compensation for the "horrible crimes" against Russians committed by Russians.

Any idea why Russian gov. decided not to sue Finnish government for the siege? Because their filthy records did not prove anything but their own crimes?

I will appreciate your comments, and by the way where is the Russian crew claiming here that everything in Russia is and was just and honest?
 
Last edited:
Likes: macon
Jan 2010
4,439
Atlanta, Georgia USA
#7
I'll postpone any further answer to this until I become more familiar with the Leningrad situation, but the fact that the charges were not pursued at Nuremberg does not mean the Germans weren't responsible.
 
Jul 2016
269
riverside
#8
Spike and David,

<<Why can't it be both? The Russians willing to throw away human lives as resources, and the Germans setting up the brutal siege> > Yeah, and Napoleon setting up (just in his mind) fires in Moscow?

Theoretically, you can blame all three sides - Finns blocking the northern border, Germans - blocking the southern border, and Russians with their free in and out roads, blocking all the rest.

"responsible" is a weak word. It is about "guilty". And it was fairly easy to make Germans guilty in everything. However, the court did not find enough evidence that the Germany was guilty of the blockade and related horrors.

I will not be surprised if someone finds German documents showing that just like Finnish army, German army had no intentions of entering Leningrad. Think why?

Or better yet, take a look at Napoleon who entered mostly wooden (buildings made of wood) Moscow, and Muscovites burned the city. In the case of brick-and stone Leningrad, Russians were destroying it by robbing and killing its population. The same old tactics of scorched land.

Also, the absence of the Russian crew on this thread looks suspicious to me... they still have nothing to say?
 
Jul 2017
335
Argentina
#9
Hey Under.
I can also copy and paste in google translator. I just thoght you had summarized the argument by yourself.
After the winter war in 39/40, fins saw in joining the germans both a way to take back what they had recently lost (that's why they called it "continuing war") and the way to avoid the fate of their Norgueigan and swedish neighbours (nazi invaded).
The fins documentedly stopped the approach to the city of Leningrad aproximately in the borderline previous to 1939.
When the soviet offensive started, fins had to retreat back to the 1939 line and, in the new treaty, the had to make plenty of concessions to the soviet union. A lot. Territory, pass permissions, german troops expulsion, island leasing, etc.
So, the soviet union DID GET ITS COMPENSATION for the finish attack near Leningrad.
As for a criminal charge not proven in Nurnmberg, I don't really know if it really means something.
The few food arriving to the city during the siege being inequitativelty or unfearly distributed??? I can only gess.... probably.

Russian members not collapsing this thread??? Can't really make an opinion on that.
IMHO.
¡¡¡aguanTe Talleres!!!
 
Aug 2014
269
New York, USA
#10
Hey Under.
I can't really read in russian. Just a few words.
Does that article provide any good argument for such a statement??
The replacement of urban russians by german colonizers was part of Op Barbarossa since the beggining. And the plan was to kill them by hunger. So, why would it be any different in that city??
OP is not referencing some scholarly article. He is referencing some Ukrainian blog post, by the author who claims in his blog that "Русской интеллигенции быть не может в виду отсутствия русского народа." "Russian intelligencia doesn't exist, because Russian people don't exist." This is all you have to know about the blog author and the OP. Don't know why this guy is not banned yet.
 
Likes: Gvelion

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