Let us discuss Ukrainian elections

Dec 2017
801
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In my opinion it's a deliberate step of Poroshenko's team - he wants to make the term of Zelensky as hard as possible. Will that law help to solve the problem of the eastern regions where they mostly speak Russian? Of course not. So Zelensky would have to abandon that law otherwise follow Poroshenko in popularity.
Law cannot be abandoned by the president in Ukraine. The president has limited power. As a commander the president has power over army, state security (СБУ), general persecutor. The president also signs enacted laws passed by the parliament and senate . For this reason Zelensky's inauguration is delayed till late May , so both houses pass the law on language and Poroshenko signs while he's still acting president.
 
Dec 2017
801
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Ukraine would have tolerated Hungarian, as Hungarians is a small community with a population f 157,000 living in 2-3 districts on the border with Hungary. Russians are the largest group after Ukrainians. Many ethnic Ukrainians are Russian speaking. I mean ethnic Ukrainians use Russian as their first language.

Large cities such as Kharkov, Odessa, Donetsk, Nikolayev, Kherson, Dnipro, Zazporzhie speak Russian. I don't know about current situation in Kiev. When I visited Kiev people spoke Russian everywhere except in government. People in Kiev region spoke Ukrainian. Also it'd be interesting to to know scientific , maths, engineering terms in Ukrainian. Neologisms?

Also, there is body of knowledge - books, scientific papers published in Russian in USSR and former Soviet republics. If you publish in Russian, then people will read you in former Soviet republics and possibly in Warsaw pact countries. If you publish in English, then much of the world will read you.
 
Jul 2016
1,334
Dengie Peninsula
Am I correct in understanding that most Ukrainians actually speak Russian ? Thus the defeated Podroshenko is only trying to make things more difficult for his successor, by passing such a law,
 

Edratman

Forum Staff
Feb 2009
6,701
Eastern PA
Am I correct in understanding that most Ukrainians actually speak Russian ? Thus the defeated Podroshenko is only trying to make things more difficult for his successor, by passing such a law,
The two languages are quite similar, deriving from the same root language. If you speak one language, you can understand a person speaking the other; not every word or phrase, but enough to communicate.
 
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Dir

Nov 2015
1,955
Kyiv
Ukraine would have tolerated Hungarian, as Hungarians is a small community with a population f 157,000 living in 2-3 districts on the border with Hungary. Russians are the largest group after Ukrainians. Many ethnic Ukrainians are Russian speaking. I mean ethnic Ukrainians use Russian as their first language.

Large cities such as Kharkov, Odessa, Donetsk, Nikolayev, Kherson, Dnipro, Zazporzhie speak Russian. I don't know about current situation in Kiev. When I visited Kiev people spoke Russian everywhere except in government. People in Kiev region spoke Ukrainian. Also it'd be interesting to to know scientific , maths, engineering terms in Ukrainian. Neologisms?

Also, there is body of knowledge - books, scientific papers published in Russian in USSR and former Soviet republics. If you publish in Russian, then people will read you in former Soviet republics and possibly in Warsaw pact countries. If you publish in English, then much of the world will read you.
Most of the terms in mathematics, physics, medicine, and the technical field in Russian are borrowed from English, German, Latin and some other European languages. Russian language contains a huge number of words borrowed from other languages. And the special terms in it are 95 percent foreign.

Therefore, it is not important for the Ukrainian language if these terms are used by borrowing from the Russian language or directly from the original language.

With the use of this terminology in the Ukrainian language there are no problems.

As for the Ukrainian language, after WWII it was consistently forced out in the Ukrainian SSR from most spheres of circulation in the process of Russification of Ukraine. After 1991, the reverse process began. I can say that the number of Kiev residents and residents of other Russian-speaking cities in Ukraine, who use the Ukrainian language in family and everyday communication outside the home is rapidly increasing.

Moreover, in the Ukrainian SSR in Soviet times, the Ukrainian language was a compulsory subject in all schools of Ukraine — in both Russian and Ukrainian ones.

My eldest son graduated from the Faculty of Mathematics and Mechanics of Kiev State University in 2000s. All subjects were taught there in Ukrainian, and I was pleased that almost all the students of his course communicated among themselves mainly in Ukrainian. Moreover, even in Soviet times the teaching of higher mathematics and other subjects at this university were conducted in Ukrainian, so there was no need to introduce additional terminology in this language after Ukraine gained independence in 1991.

In 2018, there were about 620 Russian schools in Ukraine, where all the subjects except the Ukrainian language are taught in Russian. In Kiev, there are 16 such schools.
 

Dir

Nov 2015
1,955
Kyiv
The two languages are quite similar, deriving from the same root language. If you speak one language, you can understand a person speaking the other; not every word or phrase, but enough to communicate.
All my wife's relatives live in Russia. And when they or someone else came to visit us in Kiev from Russia, they confessed that in the first days they understood almost nothing of what Ukrainian television was talking about. Only a few days later there was at least some understanding.

In Russian, only 62% of the words are common with the Ukrainian language. According to this indicator, the Russian language with respect to Ukrainian is only in fifth place after Polish, Czech, Slovak and Belarusian. For comparison, it can be noted that the English and Dutch languages are 63% similar in lexical composition - that is, more than Russian and Ukrainian.
 
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Dec 2017
801
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All my wife's relatives live in Russia. And when they or someone else came to visit us in Kiev from Russia, they confessed that in the first days they understood almost nothing of what Ukrainian television was talking about. Only a few days later there was at least some understanding.

In Russian, only 62% of the words are common with the Ukrainian language. According to this indicator, the Russian language with respect to Ukrainian is only in fifth place after Polish, Czech, Slovak and Belarusian. For comparison, it can be noted that the English and Dutch languages are 63% similar in lexical composition - that is, more than Russian and Ukrainian.
It's 86% between Russian and Ukrainian. 92% between Ukrainian and Belarusian. 76% between Ukrainian and Polish. 80% between Belarusian and Polish. Of west and south Slavic languages Polish is most to east Slavic languages. Table is published in peer-review journal by Lithuanian linguists.











A thorough recent study (2015) in which different statistical methods are used . The proximity between languages is represented by phylogenetic trees. Different dialects are presented. In all instances Ukrainian and Belarusian most similar. Followed by Russian dialects. Then by Polish. :
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0135820.s008&type=supplementary
 
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Dec 2017
801
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The two languages are quite similar, deriving from the same root language. If you speak one language, you can understand a person speaking the other; not every word or phrase, but enough to communicate.
Modern literary Belarusian and Ukrainian stemmed from the same language. Russian too . Literary Russian is more influenced by Old Church Slavonic. Belarusian by Polish. More than Ukrainian and Russian.
 
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At Each Kilometer

Ad Honorem
Sep 2012
3,925
Bulgaria
Modern literary Belarusian and Ukrainian stemmed from the same language. Russian too . Literary Russian is more influenced by Old Church Slavonic. Belarusian by Polish. More than Ukrainian and Russian.
Thanks for the info in your post #288.

I suppose literally Russian is influenced by OCS because latter serves as ROC liturgical language. I presume OCS is used by the UOC and BOC so it would be interesting to learn why OCS influence upon these two eastern slavic languages is lesser.

As a side note my language /southern slavic/ was heavily Russified in the last decades of XIX century during its 'deturkification' process / Russian loanwords were used to fill the 'gaps'.
 
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