LGBT lessons in schools

Jun 2016
1,863
England, 200 yards from Wales
And this is just one example of the results of indoctrination in schools

School strike for climate - Wikipedia


international movement of school students who are deciding not to attend classes and instead take part in demonstrations to demand action to prevent further global warming and climate change. Publicity and widespread organising began when the climate activist Greta Thunberg staged an action in August 2018 outside the Swedish Riksdag (parliament), holding a sign that read "Skolstrejk för klimatet" ("School strike for the climate").

So now we have a new religion with its apocalyptic prophet (who keeps telling us that if we dont adhere to her religion we will be damned for eternity)

And when they grow up they will probably do smart stuff like this ....... in a bid for martyrhood
Is it indoctrination? (Genuine question) - but from that Wikipedia article it doesn't seem to have been driven much by schools, but by networks of young people. Is there any evidence that Greta Thunberg was pushed into this by her school?
Maybe schools do teach that warming is happening, isn't it their job to teach what is the scientific consensus? That's why they don't teach about phlogiston or fixed continents.
 

Iraq Bruin

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
5,195
DC
Well, to start with, it is at one level just teaching facts as above. This is not 'statist' indoctrination, when homosexuality was decriminalised here in the '60's it wasn't forced by the state on a reluctant people, it was the law catching up with how society had changed. It is a fact that society is much less prejudiced about such matters now - and surely part of education is helping children come to understand their society.
Is this indoctrination? Some claim it is, as though if the school didn't mention these matters children would be left in a perfectly neutral state until making a wholly uninfluenced judgement at age 16 or 18 or whenever. In fact of course that would not be the case. Those who have objected don't seem to have been wanting that, but to have a free hand to do their own indoctrination. I don't think anyone has suggested that parents, or priests, will be stopped from teaching their views to children, but they don't have the right to demand that the education system, which exists for all children, not just theirs, must never reveal to their children that other ideas exist.
Do the parents' objections really make more sense than those objecting to the teaching of evolution in school?
Let's not mix things: showing all sides should mean "teaching the children ALL sides" as seen by said sides, it is called battle of ideas AKA Debate/thinking based, showing "other" sides means indoctrination that explicitly targets certain beliefs but not their opposites.

I am saying that because I do not see it as a state function to take these sides inside a school, if one wants to teach civics of equal protection, that is great, if one wants to teach "your parents are bigots, go tell them and come with us later" then at least wait until the children are close to "adulthood" to get there.
 
Jun 2016
1,863
England, 200 yards from Wales
Let's not mix things: showing all sides should mean "teaching the children ALL sides" as seen by said sides, it is called battle of ideas AKA Debate/thinking based, showing "other" sides means indoctrination that explicitly targets certain beliefs but not their opposites.

I am saying that because I do not see it as a state function to take these sides inside a school, if one wants to teach civics of equal protection, that is great, if one wants to teach "your parents are bigots, go tell them and come with us later" then at least wait until the children are close to "adulthood" to get there.
How is this different to 'civics of equal protection'? It is just saying that despite apparent differences these are all equally people.
Has any school said 'your parents are bigots' (even if they are)?
Remember schools also teach about religions and their ideas.
Actually at this age would children really connect a family with two mummies, unusual but OK, with what their parents' religion says about active homosexuality?
 

Iraq Bruin

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
5,195
DC
How is this different to 'civics of equal protection'? It is just saying that despite apparent differences these are all equally people.
Civics are mostly part of a legal code, a state interest is teaching that to all of its' citizens
Has any school said 'your parents are bigots' (even if they are)?
The point I was making is that the state is taking sides in a social issue while in reality it should not address it at that age level.
Remember schools also teach about religions and their ideas.
I did not say I agree with the state teaching about religion other than using "history" books.

Actually at this age would children really connect a family with two mummies, unusual but OK, with what their parents' religion says about active homosexuality?
My child has not connected that his peers have single parents, unmarried parents, mixed race parents, or different religion, I have not seen any child with same-sex couple in his school but I am sure one day he will, I know I am there to teach him that we all are people.

The objection of the parents in the OP is not my concern, I do think the child's age matter in such important yet complex issues.

On the other hand, I have just remembered this

Film exposes immigrants to Dutch liberalism
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,812
Is it indoctrination? (Genuine question) - but from that Wikipedia article it doesn't seem to have been driven much by schools, but by networks of young people. Is there any evidence that Greta Thunberg was pushed into this by her school?
Maybe schools do teach that warming is happening, isn't it their job to teach what is the scientific consensus? That's why they don't teach about phlogiston or fixed continents.
probably not "schools" but individual teachers parroting politically correct mantra

do these same schools/teachers teach about run away demography ? probably not as it is not politically correct...And do you see these children strike against high birth rates ? (which are the primary driver for many of our world wide problems) And btw there is not quite a "scientific consensus" on global warming as a result of man made activities (though clearly a vast majority of scientists is on board) so from a school program perspective it would still make sense to present both sides of the argument...
 
Jun 2016
1,863
England, 200 yards from Wales
probably not "schools" but individual teachers parroting politically correct mantra
Do you know that, or is it possible that she (and other young people) read reports of, for instance, the UN Global Environment Outlook paper, and recognised the weight of scientific studies behind it. Or if a science teacher recognised that scientific authority and taught about it is that really "parroting politically correct mantra"?

do these same schools/teachers teach about run away demography ? probably not as it is not politically correct.....
Actually some do, I recall it in some schools where I worked in the past. How generally it is taught I don't know, I agree it should be included as part of the problem.
 
Last edited:
Jun 2016
1,863
England, 200 yards from Wales
Civics are mostly part of a legal code, a state interest is teaching that to all of its' citizens
And are there not laws about equal treatment of various groups?
There certainly are in the UK - Equality Act 2010: guidance

The point I was making is that the state is taking sides in a social issue while in reality it should not address it at that age level.
Would that be the case if lessons were teaching that people are not so very different even if their skin is a different colour?
Though I have agreed there could be debate about the appropriate age, depending on exactly what is taught and how.

I did not say I agree with the state teaching about religion other than using "history" books.
Yet religion is a part of all societies, should children not be taught about it (rather than taught it).

My child has not connected that his peers have single parents, unmarried parents, mixed race parents, or different religion, I have not seen any child with same-sex couple in his school but I am sure one day he will, I know I am there to teach him that we all are people.
Good for you, unfortunately we can't rely on all parents being equally civilised.
 
Last edited:

Iraq Bruin

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
5,195
DC
And are there not laws about equal treatment of various groups?

There certainly are in the UK - Equality Act 2010: guidance
Yes, I mentioned it after all.

Would that be the case if lessons were teaching that people are not so very different even if their skin is a different color?
I have a different approach, I think race is something that is brought into the equation by adults while kids mostly are fine with each other.


I have recently read in one of our local primary schools about "dark skinned" kids being targeted and bullied by other "dark skinned" kids for not racially identfying themselves like the other ones, I used "" because that was how it was phrased.

I wonder how that would be taught in a lesson about equality ?

I do believe "race" has lost its' meaning as an issue for me since all sides have lost civility about it; an unfortunate thing that I do not want young minds to be taught if the schools are not equipped to deal with all the relevant issues (and mostly are not).

I grew up not dealing with race definitions so I came here and both sides tried to define "me" for me and define "the other" for me ; I refused and rejected being made guilty thinking that I treat each individual with respect and deal with merit and character.

That does not suit anyone in a "race" discussion which brings the point about having it in school with all sides and "open minds" as opposed to "hurt feelings", if not then I do not want it either.

Though I have agreed there could be debate about the appropriate age, depending on exactly what is taught and how.
that is fine.

Yet religion is a part of all societies, should children not be taught about it (rather than taught it).
I do not really care, I consider religion (including mine) an ideology that can be studied and critiqued.
But I still feel the state will take sides.
Good for you, unfortunately we can't rely on all parents being equally civilized.
That is a loaded statement AND I am not saying you meant it that way.

We have a lot of badly behaving children, adults, and young adults, a lot of people frown upon blaming the parents and usually offer one of two solutions/explanations:
1-Blame society.
2-Change the label of the behavior to "good" or "decriminalized".

But that is a totally different topic.
 
Apr 2019
3
Alabama
This might seem odd but we are having this discussion in the states as well. If it must be taught in elementary school why not just put it in the family science/ social studies class? Just a thought.