LGBT lessons in schools

Feb 2019
840
Serbia
LGBT folks should form defense groups worldwide where they could receive arms and training...especially in any countries with laws against LGBT.

Imagine waking up in a country and the law says you can not be what you are in your heart and soul...its probably the worst crime in our world.
So, you are proposing that they should form a sort of a militia because they are discriminated against by some? As for the law saying that ''you can't be what you are'' countries that have laws explicitly forbidding LGBT are rare. There are also different cultures in the world and some cultures don't react the same towards LGBT and other such groups. In my country there is nothing legally prohibiting them, even our prime minister is LGBT. Still regular people look down on them and in some extreme cases will openly react. That is simply how some people are and you cannot change them.

For the armed training part: Why do they need it? And even if they do, why should only they get it? I hold some unpopular opinions and feelings on certain issues, should I and people like me form a militia and overthrow the government just because we are not a majority and some people disagree with us? Furthermore if this is done it would just cause instability and add fuel to the fire, if not result in armed conflict.
 

holoow

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
3,839
Vilnius, Lithuania
LGBT folks should form defense groups worldwide where they could receive arms and training...especially in any countries with laws against LGBT.

Imagine waking up in a country and the law says you can not be what you are in your heart and soul...its probably the worst crime in our world.
What about those who has sexual paraphilias?
 

JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
3,791
USA
So, you are proposing that they should form a sort of a militia because they are discriminated against by some? As for the law saying that ''you can't be what you are'' countries that have laws explicitly forbidding LGBT are rare. There are also different cultures in the world and some cultures don't react the same towards LGBT and other such groups. In my country there is nothing legally prohibiting them, even our prime minister is LGBT. Still regular people look down on them and in some extreme cases will openly react. That is simply how some people are and you cannot change them.

For the armed training part: Why do they need it? And even if they do, why should only they get it? I hold some unpopular opinions and feelings on certain issues, should I and people like me form a militia and overthrow the government just because we are not a majority and some people disagree with us? Furthermore if this is done it would just cause instability and add fuel to the fire, if not result in armed conflict.

Wrt LGBT, this is different from a political ideology or feeling a certain way about a topic... Being LGBT is like being white, or black its something one is born with. Whether or not one views LGBT as choosing their lifestyle or not should not matter in a just society. Polls and studies show that a countries population can and does think different from the gov. Take Iran for example, 40-50% of Iranians have a favorable view of the USA...thats more then Canada and Mexico at this moment. Point here is that its possible more people then you think do not look down on LGBT folks including in countries where one may assume otherwise.

There are different cultures and law systems in our world. At the same time its safe to say LGBT folks are in every country. Currently a # of countries have the death penalty on the books for LGBT folks so thats an issue. Imagine, those countries had a death penalty on the books for someone based on being male, female or ones skin color.

There are many civil groups that take a part in ensuring human rights or at least make an attempt. Some international groups use arms such as Un peace troops. Such an idea may not come into fruition but surely in a just world any person in the world that is being discriminated against on the basis of sex, color or religion would be able to reach out to some kind of international group for assistance. Main response is that yes there are different cultures, but in every part of the world people want more liberal values..Governments do not have to be overthrown and I think conflict should be avoided. The hope is that all countries of the world can be safe for people regardless of there sex, religion or skin color. The countries that are currently anti LGBT have the opportunity to change, and that does not have to be viewed as a evolution or revolution as LGBT lifestyles go far back into history.
 
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JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
3,791
USA
What about those who has sexual paraphilias?

I think most can agree that Adults should be able to consent with each other. But to your point, anything involving something that would be labeled as a sexual crime in the USA should not be allowed.
 
Jun 2016
1,859
England, 200 yards from Wales
Still regular people look down on them and in some extreme cases will openly react. That is simply how some people are and you cannot change them.
Maybe you can't change them, but you can perhaps educate the next generation to take a more tolerant view. Which is where all this started I suppose.
To me 'regular' means 'at equal intervals of time', so what are regular people?
If all 'regular' people look down on them I suppose 'regular' means prejudiced?
 
Feb 2019
840
Serbia
Maybe you can't change them, but you can perhaps educate the next generation to take a more tolerant view. Which is where all this started I suppose.
To me 'regular' means 'at equal intervals of time', so what are regular people?
If all 'regular' people look down on them I suppose 'regular' means prejudiced?
You can say they are prejudiced, yes. I didn't say all people are like that, I just spoke from my personal experience. I personally have no problem with the LGBT people as long as they are functional members of society and live together with the rest of people without expecting some special treatment.

You can educate the future generation and instill different ideas in them, however it isn't easy to undo tradition and cultural ideas, this re-education might take several generations to fully take effect.
 
Feb 2019
840
Serbia
There are different cultures and law systems in our world. At the same time its safe to say LGBT folks are in every country. Currently a # of countries have the death penalty on the books for LGBT folks so thats an issue. Imagine, those countries had a death penalty on the books for someone based on being male, female or ones skin color.
And that number is relatively small I believe, these laws are obviously good, however I find that forming a militia for this is going a bit too far.

There are many civil groups that take a part in ensuring human rights or at least make an attempt. Some international groups use arms such as Un peace troops. Such an idea may not come into fruition but surely in a just world any person in the world that is being discriminated against on the basis of sex, color or religion would be able to reach out to some kind of international group for assistance. Main response is that yes there are different cultures, but in every part of the world people want more liberal values..Governments do not have to be overthrown and I think conflict should be avoided. The hope is that all countries of the world can be safe for people regardless of there sex, religion or skin color. The countries that are currently anti LGBT have the opportunity to chance, and that does not have to be viewed as a evolution or revolution as LGBT lifestyles go far back into history.
Reaching out to an international group and forming a militia are different. The UN peace troops are there to keep peace and prevent armed conflict, their weapons are a necessity for them and they serve a purpouse, no country would dare to attack them. If the LGBT people form militias and have military training they would likely use their weapons, leading to violence and instability. I don't think they need it and that their rights can be earned without it, as they have been earned in today's democratic countries.
 

sculptingman

Ad Honorem
Oct 2009
3,614
San Diego
Now, this is potentially a charged topic so let's try and discuss it like adults.

There has been a case in the UK recently where a head teacher introduced LGBT classes in a primary school, which was opposed by many parents, a lot of whom are Muslim. In addition to these issues, the lessons also teach children about diversity, amongst other things. Here is a link to one of the stories about it on the BBC:
School's LGBT lessons 'are appropriate'

I am against this. Not because I have anything against LGBT rights, but I do not feel that this IS an age-appropriate topic. Primary school is far too early to be burdening children with this sort of information. It is an age where children are possibly confused about their sexuality, and whether this is intentional or not, these sorts of lessons only serve to confuse them more.

For the same reason, I oppose sex education at this age, and teaching about consent. In the age of #MeToo, I can't help feel that our society has gone too far. Children should be allowed to be children. At this age, they should be worrying about Pokemon, Power Rangers and Barbie, not being pressured to act like miniature adults.

I also can't help feeling, after having watched an interview with the head teacher in question, that this is a woman out to make a name for herself, rather than having the interests of the children at heart.

What do you all think?
On the one hand I agree with you that LGBTQ issues should not be addressed in School, because they are more political than they are any actual known science.

However, Sex education is woefully inadequate.

The idea that we should let children be children ignores the fact that Any child with access to the internet has access to every imaginable sexual image, kink and perversion.

It also ignores the fact that our puritanical fantasy that children are asexual beings has no basis in fact and no relevance to children's actual behavior.
What used to be called "playing doctor" is NORMAL behavior for children, as they all have genitals and all are curious about them. when I was a kid in the 60's kids had zero access to porn of any kind... and yet we droolingly poured over the Sears catalog lingerie pages, imagining we could see some hint of nipple, or public hair thru the lace.


The idea that children who are entering puberty or post pubescence have no sexual feelings or drives is a religious delusion. And our culture's obsessive denial of the fact of emerging pubescent sexuality too often means that children are left adrift to navigate these urges and feelings with no parental nor societal guidance other than shaming them for even having these curiosities.

A good analogy is that parents, especially religious ones, may very well WISH that their kids not have access to a car before the age of 18- but Nature hands them a car at 12 or 13.
And not just any car- but a ferrari. A sleek, powerful, exciting vehicle that they have NO experience nor education in how to handle.

I think teens NEED drivers ed.

And I think teens NEED information about the urges they feel in their body, and what constitutes responsible conduct regarding those drives.
 

Cepheus

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
2,309
And I think teens NEED information about the urges they feel in their body, and what constitutes responsible conduct regarding those drives.
One dichotomy, in an issue with many contrasting arguments is WHO should be responsible for this.

The argument on one side is that this is the job of the parents.

The opposing argument is that many parents are not doing this and neglecting their children.

I don't have an answer here. IMHO, this is a dilemma with sound logic coming from people on both sides of the issue.
 
Jun 2016
1,859
England, 200 yards from Wales
You can say they are prejudiced, yes. I didn't say all people are like that, I just spoke from my personal experience. I personally have no problem with the LGBT people as long as they are functional members of society and live together with the rest of people without expecting some special treatment.
You did say 'regular people look down on them', not just some people. Still, I wouldn't disagree with anything you say here.

You can educate the future generation and instill different ideas in them, however it isn't easy to undo tradition and cultural ideas, this re-education might take several generations to fully take effect.
Maybe it might take that long (a good reason for getting on with it), but considering how much attitudes have changed in the UK since I was young (1950's, 60's) to a variety of people who used to meet far more prejudice than now (gay, black for instance), perhaps some real improvement (though not 100% change) needn't take that long.