LGBT lessons in schools

Feb 2019
878
Serbia
Maybe it might take that long (a good reason for getting on with it), but considering how much attitudes have changed in the UK since I was young (1950's, 60's) to a variety of people who used to meet far more prejudice than now (gay, black for instance), perhaps some real improvement (though not 100% change) needn't take that long.
You are probably right, ideas can change quickly, however I still think that it will take a long time for this changing of ideas to fully take effect in some countries, we may not fully know unless it actually fully happens.
 

JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
3,813
USA
And that number is relatively small I believe, these laws are obviously good, however I find that forming a militia for this is going a bit too far.



Reaching out to an international group and forming a militia are different. The UN peace troops are there to keep peace and prevent armed conflict, their weapons are a necessity for them and they serve a purpose, no country would dare to attack them. If the LGBT people form militias and have military training they would likely use their weapons, leading to violence and instability. I don't think they need it and that their rights can be earned without it, as they have been earned in today's democratic countries.
Wiki says that 12 countries have a death penalty for LGBT folks One source said that in 72 countries homosexuality is illegal. I would say imagine if in 12 countries being a man was punishable by death and in 72 countries being a man was illegal. Something should be done about this inequality.

I was arguing earlier that LGBT folks should form defense groups and work with non lgbt to do so, This would involve putting groups like the UN to real use such as using the UN to ensure every country does not discriminate based on skin color, sex or religion. I would not say that LGBT folks should form militias. I want to add that not talking about this issue, or arguing that LGBT folks should mind there own business is a flawed view, Im not saying this is your view but its how some feel. Another way to address the issue is to have each countries police force have a division set up to deal with LGBT rights because at this point in the world based on the #s there is an injustice wrt treatment of LGBT compared to non LGBT, there would not be for example the pride parades and such if there was not such inequality. I understand some Governments and even individuals in the world work to uphold law systems that favor people based on looks, sex or religion as opposed to ones merit. So It would take quite a bit of work to make a real difference in terms of equal treatment for LGBT worldwide.
 

holoow

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
3,842
Vilnius, Lithuania
Preoccupation with gay rights is a sign of civilization's decline.
 
Feb 2019
878
Serbia
Wiki says that 12 countries have a death penalty for LGBT folks One source said that in 72 countries homosexuality is illegal. I would say imagine if in 12 countries being a man was punishable by death and in 72 countries being a man was illegal. Something should be done about this inequality.
I'm not sure about the 72 figure, what are those countries? Out of the 193 members of the UN+ the Vatican and several unrecognised states 12 is pretty small. percentage wise it's roughly 6% of all countries in the UN. This is tiny. Of course something should be done about it. Still, this proves my point that countries that have a death penalty for homosexuality are few and I believe most, if not all of them have a religion-based justification for their laws, not saying it actually justifies it but still, they are few.

I was arguing earlier that LGBT folks should form defense groups and work with non lgbt to do so, This would involve putting groups like the UN to real use such as using the UN to ensure every country does not discriminate based on skin color, sex or religion
In the case of the UN someone will probably abuse this if it was established. You said:

LGBT folks should form defense groups worldwide where they could receive arms and training...especially in any countries with laws against LGBT.
Definitely, form defence groups (Assuming with some international support?) where they receive arms and training. This sounds like a militia to me, equipping people with weapons and training them. If they had weapons and were trained they would likely use them and I believe this would hurt them even more.


I want to add that not talking about this issue, or arguing that LGBT folks should mind there own business is a flawed view, Im not saying this is your view but its how some feel. Another way to address the issue is to have each countries police force have a division set up to deal with LGBT rights because at this point in the world based on the #s there is an injustice wrt treatment of LGBT compared to non LGBT,
A police division to patrol and protect the LGBT? I'm not sure, in some extreme cases such as pride parades this may be necessary but in day-to-day life I doubt the necessity of it.


there would not be for example the pride parades and such if there was not such inequality.
On the contrary, I believe that things like pride parades are a part of the problem. By doing these parades and acceptance movements they are trying to stand out and ''signal'' to the rest that they want to be accepted. I think that this just damages them and provokes more discrimination, if they want to be accepted they should live in the society just like everyone else. Pride parades and these movements give the impression to some that they want some special treatment or are trying to push themselves as something special. If they want to be treated equally I believe they should not do this.

I understand some Governments and even individuals in the world work to uphold law systems that favor people based on looks, sex or religion as opposed to ones merit. So It would take quite a bit of work to make a real difference in terms of equal treatment for LGBT worldwide.
I agree with this but I will raise another side of the coin: What of those who give privileges to people because they are a minority, in this case LGBT. I think that if true equality should be achieved that these privileges shouldn't be in place regardless of one's race, religion, gender, sexuality etc.
 

JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
3,813
USA
I'm not sure about the 72 figure, what are those countries? Out of the 193 members of the UN+ the Vatican and several unrecognised states 12 is pretty small. percentage wise it's roughly 6% of all countries in the UN. This is tiny. Of course something should be done about it. Still, this proves my point that countries that have a death penalty for homosexuality are few and I believe most, if not all of them have a religion-based justification for their laws, not saying it actually justifies it but still, they are few.



In the case of the UN someone will probably abuse this if it was established. You said:



Definitely, form defence groups (Assuming with some international support?) where they receive arms and training. This sounds like a militia to me, equipping people with weapons and training them. If they had weapons and were trained they would likely use them and I believe this would hurt them even more.




A police division to patrol and protect the LGBT? I'm not sure, in some extreme cases such as pride parades this may be necessary but in day-to-day life I doubt the necessity of it.




On the contrary, I believe that things like pride parades are a part of the problem. By doing these parades and acceptance movements they are trying to stand out and ''signal'' to the rest that they want to be accepted. I think that this just damages them and provokes more discrimination, if they want to be accepted they should live in the society just like everyone else. Pride parades and these movements give the impression to some that they want some special treatment or are trying to push themselves as something special. If they want to be treated equally I believe they should not do this.



I agree with this but I will raise another side of the coin: What of those who give privileges to people because they are a minority, in this case LGBT. I think that if true equality should be achieved that these privileges shouldn't be in place regardless of one's race, religion, gender, sexuality etc.

I agree with your approach in some ways and would also clear something up. I dont feel that LGBT folks should form a militia. By defense groups I mean to say that lgbt folks should have equal rights and need to be able to protect themselves and to be protected. For example in the USA if someone was attacked because of there skin color, sex or religion the police would come to address the issue and punish the criminal. The issue in many countries is that LGBT folks need to be able to protect themselves and be protected, this is common sense IMO.

The reason why pride parades exist is because still in our world today some individuals and Gov practice discrimination against LGBT, clearly more so compared to so called straight people. There would not be a need for a parade parade, for folks to make public there concerns for LGBT rights worldwide if we had equality but its not the case. At this point, more work is needed. There is not one country in the world that punishes folks based on being so called straight. But to have 12 countries with a death penalty against LGBT , and 70 countries with laws against LGBT is unacceptable. Once the playing field is level, it would be ok IMO then to criticize LGBT folks for asking for more rights. But at this point LGBT folks are severely mistreated in the world so action has to be taken here.

https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/
 

sculptingman

Ad Honorem
Oct 2009
3,637
San Diego
One dichotomy, in an issue with many contrasting arguments is WHO should be responsible for this.

The argument on one side is that this is the job of the parents.

The opposing argument is that many parents are not doing this and neglecting their children.

I don't have an answer here. IMHO, this is a dilemma with sound logic coming from people on both sides of the issue.
I disagree. You only have to ask yourself the simple question, " do parents OWN their children?"

Parents can be idiots. Parents can suffer religious delusions that would prevent them from seeking medical aid for their sick child. Parents can form ignorant beliefs and refuse to vaccinate their kids... That is to say that parents can do a LOT of damage to Future adults thru their ignorance.

Nowhere is this more evident than in the paralyzingly stupid policy to allow "home schooling". Should the community trust parents who can't do math and don't understand science educate children for whom those subjects will be pivotal to finding gainful employment in the future?

There are two sides to this conundrum, neither of which support indulging parents in this manner.
1- Does society do a disservice to future adults by ALLOWING parents to raise children incapable of negotiating the modern technological society on which their lives and depend?

2- Is society and the lives of the rest of the community impaired by having parents Refuse to vaccinate or refuse to educate their children? Is not the 15 year old with a baby a burden on the rest of society and likely to end up on public assistance because she never finished school, or had the chance to grow up, herself?
Can a civilization entirely dependent on complex technology AFFORD to have a large percentage of its citizen be raised technologically illiterate?

I would argue that the one ( leaving teens in the dark about sex ) begets the other ( teen mother dropouts resenting their lost youth and passing on their own ignorance to their child )
Not to mention the STDs.

So, no, I do not agree that there is a "good" argument to parental rights to keep their children ignorant... or worse, to teach them lies and delusions regarding sexuality.

We do not rely on parents to teach Physics.

We do not rely on parents to teach biology.

We rely on experts on those factual matters to explain them to our children.



But we aren't allowed to teach them anything about their own bodies and how they work?

When it comes to sex and sexuality, we handle it like the Lord of the Flies- We maroon them, without even the option of talking about it to adults, on the desert isles of Jr. High and High School and let them work it out by themselves.