Little man with huge potential

May 2013
1,721
The abode of the lord of the north
#11
You miss my point. I was saying it might not necessarily be a boar. It could be an ox, a deer or even some supernatural animal. Of-course it could also be a forgery - has anyone dated it? I noticed it has a lot more verdigris on it than the other humanoid/tool objects unearthed (I don't know if these things have a noun to themselves), maybe just the picture, but can anyone confirm the authenticity of this object?
Boar is one good candidate though.. And I've absolutely no Idea on dating... I doubt if anyone would bother to fake it. I mean he could've made additional features to Resemble Boar, had he wanted.
 
Feb 2014
1,429
Asia
#12
It belongs to Copper Hoard Culture (2nd millenium BC). As per B.B. Lal this was the culture of indegenous people different from Indo-Aryans and Harappans. Though some signs of Harappan influence are detectable.

And as per earliest texts (Taittiriya Aranyaka and Shatapatha Brahmana) it was Prajapati who took the form of Boar to bring the earth out of water.
 
May 2013
1,721
The abode of the lord of the north
#13
It belongs to Copper Hoard Culture (2nd millenium BC). As per B.B. Lal this was the culture of indegenous people different from Indo-Aryans and Harappans. Though some signs of Harappan influence are detectable.

And as per earliest texts (Taittiriya Aranyaka and Shatapatha Brahmana) it was Prajapati who took the form of Boar to bring the earth out of water.
Yp. Vishnu is evolved from Prajapati
 

Jinit

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
5,274
India
#14
Couple of points:
1. That thing doesn't look like a unicorn, simply a deer.
2. The Boar's head might not be a head, it might just be badly cast.


Either way, a single piece of evidence is usually not the best way to build a theory, particularly one that connects two cultures of which one we know practically nothing about and the second we can only make educated guesses about purpose since we have no literature regarding their culture
No, It doesn't look like a deer at all. Infact the Harappan seal is the first thing that comes in the mind when looking at the animal in the center.







Similarly it doesn't look like that the boar's head shape has been accidental creation. Infact the thing that creates the suspicion is that the piece is too clear in conveying the message/conclusion that it wants to convey. Dating may not be helpful either, because if forger is really intelligent, then he might have used the real copper hoard piece to fabricate this one. I would wait for an article from some well acknowledged scholar on the matter.

However if proven true, it won't provide any definite link, although it will surely be one of the links connecting the two different entities
 

tornada

Ad Honoris
Mar 2013
15,385
India
#15
No, It doesn't look like a deer at all. Infact the Harappan seal is the first thing that comes in the mind when looking at the animal in the center.







Similarly it doesn't look like that the boar's head shape has been accidental creation. Infact the thing that creates the suspicion is that the piece is too clear in conveying the message/conclusion that it wants to convey. Dating may not be helpful either, because if forger is really intelligent, then he might have used the real copper hoard piece to fabricate this one. I would wait for an article from some well acknowledged scholar on the matter.

However if proven true, it won't provide any definite link, although it will surely be one of the links connecting the two different entities
One problem. The thing seems to have two horns, not one. All the Harappan unicorns are single horned - hence unicorn. And the shape would be generic. There's not many ways to cast a four legged animal onto Bronze. I'm not disputing you're arguments, I'm just wondering if we're seeing what we want to see in this copper figure.

Also if the Harappan unicorn is a representation of a real animal (as has been hypothesized) such with two horns where the second horn is not visible, then to it might negate the idea of a link, since the animal itself would have been present across the geography of the two cultures.

Unicorn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Obviously by link here i don't mean contact. That assumption is a logical one. But a more fundamental link between the cultures. The figure may just be representative of contact between the cultures, even if we can agree on it being a Harappan figure.

Also if its a forgery, scientific analyses should be able to catch it. The copper itself would have to be heated and cast in some way to alter it, or even struck with an imprinting tool, which would be modern, and that would leave behind evidence of modern alterations. Of-course I'm not sure if this thing has been submitted for scientific analysis. Lots of stuff in India often isn't.
 
Feb 2014
1,429
Asia
#16
Ajathashatru said:
Yp. Vishnu is evolved from Prajapati
I believe even Brahma is also evolved from Prajapati. Sati's father Daksha is also called Prajapati.

In Rajasthan, the famous temple of Varaha is located in Pushkar, a place also famous for god Brahma. Also, one region of Copper Hoard culture is South Haryana and Northeast Rajasthan, from where this artifact was found.
 
Mar 2012
453
#17
One problem. The thing seems to have two horns, not one. All the Harappan unicorns are single horned - hence unicorn. And the shape would be generic. There's not many ways to cast a four legged animal onto Bronze. I'm not disputing you're arguments, I'm just wondering if we're seeing what we want to see in this copper figure.

Also if the Harappan unicorn is a representation of a real animal (as has been hypothesized) such with two horns where the second horn is not visible, then to it might negate the idea of a link, since the animal itself would have been present across the geography of the two cultures.

Unicorn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Obviously by link here i don't mean contact. That assumption is a logical one. But a more fundamental link between the cultures. The figure may just be representative of contact between the cultures, even if we can agree on it being a Harappan figure.

Also if its a forgery, scientific analyses should be able to catch it. The copper itself would have to be heated and cast in some way to alter it, or even struck with an imprinting tool, which would be modern, and that would leave behind evidence of modern alterations. Of-course I'm not sure if this thing has been submitted for scientific analysis. Lots of stuff in India often isn't.

Thats not two horns, its just patina damage. This artifact might not be authentic, but, it is clearly a representation of the Unicorn found on the seals. All the body parts, plus the pose match.

Second, the side profile theory of the unicorn has been disproven some time ago. The seals are representing a unicorn, countless figurines have been found that also represent the animal.

 
Mar 2012
453
#18
There is also the point that Ekasrnga, Having one horn, is an epithet of Vishnu in his Varaha form.

It really would be something if this thing is real.
 
May 2013
1,721
The abode of the lord of the north
#20
I believe even Brahma is also evolved from Prajapati. Sati's father Daksha is also called Prajapati.

In Rajasthan, the famous temple of Varaha is located in Pushkar, a place also famous for god Brahma. Also, one region of Copper Hoard culture is South Haryana and Northeast Rajasthan, from where this artifact was found.
I think most of the later gods are derived from Prajapati. Is there any Iranian equivalent to Prajapati?
 

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