Macedonia has Officially Changed its Name

Oct 2014
1,196
California
They speak French in Ontario, Canada without the need to call it France. We speak English in the USA and don't want to call our country England. In Mexico, they speak Spanish and in Brazil, they speak Portuguese.... The point is the people who migrated into the land that was once a place where Greek/Macedonian/Spartan was spoken does not make them want to call it Serbia or Bosnia or ??

People can identify with the land.

Here in America, we are home to all kinds of people and those people become Americans. The point being, people of another language or race have gone into the land of Macedonia to become Macedonians... why not let them, in peace?
 
Likes: bodhi
Nov 2014
930
USA
I thought the language of the ancient Macedonians (at least the lower social groups) was still up to debate to be anything from Illyrian, Thracian etc and mostly only the elite speaking Greek because it was fancy.
The most reliable information we have for the 1st millennium BC, spoken by the lower social groups in Macedonia was a variant of Doric Greek as suggested by N.G.L. Hammond (1989) Olivier Masson (1996), Michael Meier-Brügger (2003), Johannes Engels (2010), and Hatzopoulos (2011).
The Macedonian aristocracy eventually established Attic Greek, as it was generally accepted by all in the Hellenic world at the time.
 
Nov 2014
930
USA
They speak French in Ontario, Canada without the need to call it France. We speak English in the USA and don't want to call our country England. In Mexico, they speak Spanish and in Brazil, they speak Portuguese.... The point is the people who migrated into the land that was once a place where Greek/Macedonian/Spartan was spoken does not make them want to call it Serbia or Bosnia or ??

People can identify with the land.

Here in America, we are home to all kinds of people and those people become Americans. The point being, people of another language or race have gone into the land of Macedonia to become Macedonians... why not let them, in peace?
Well, people here in America did not assume the name England for themselves, same as in Australia or New Zealand;
neither did Brazilians assumed the name Portugal, or any Latin American country the name Spain.

Neither people in America claimed that Richard the Lionhearted or Edward I the Longshanks was one of their own!

Why can't the Fyromians find a nice name for themselves, abandoning claims that really belong to others and live in peace thereafter?
 

Shtajerc

Ad Honorem
Jul 2014
6,359
Lower Styria, Slovenia
Well, people here in America did not assume the name England for themselves, same as in Australia or New Zealand;
neither did Brazilians assumed the name Portugal, or any Latin American country the name Spain.

Neither people in America claimed that Richard the Lionhearted or Edward I the Longshanks was one of their own!

Why can't the Fyromians find a nice name for themselves, abandoning claims that really belong to others and live in peace thereafter?
The name of Macedonia does not belong only to Greece as the region of Macedonia is part of 3 more countries. Greece doesn't have a monopoly over the region. I view that just the same as the duchies of Carinthia and Styria, which are split between Austria and Slovenia and we both use their names. I see no reasoning whatsoever why Macedonia should change its name to something that doesn't include Macedonia in the name. However, I don't agree with them claiming ancient Macedonian heritage or culture as they are clearly a different people who is not their direct descendant.
 
Likes: bodhi
Oct 2014
1,196
California
Well, people here in America did not assume the name England for themselves, same as in Australia or New Zealand;
neither did Brazilians assumed the name Portugal, or any Latin American country the name Spain.

Neither people in America claimed that Richard the Lionhearted or Edward I the Longshanks was one of their own!

Why can't the Fyromians find a nice name for themselves, abandoning claims that really belong to others and live in peace thereafter?
That is my point... people moved into Macedonia and want to keep the name Macedonia. You were of the opinion they should change the name of the country to reflect the people who are there now.
 
Nov 2014
930
USA
The name of Macedonia does not belong only to Greece as the region of Macedonia is part of 3 more countries. Greece doesn't have a monopoly over the region.
Only according to definitions described in many later centuries by people who had nothing to do in connection with the original ancient Macedonia.

I view that just the same as the duchies of Carinthia and Styria, which are split between Austria and Slovenia and we both use their names.
I couldn't talk to you about this, since I don't know much about the history or the cultures involved for these regions; but again neither Slovenia or Austria assumed any of the names for their respective countries from these regions, and therefore you cannot draw a parallel with the Macedonian issue.

I see no reasoning whatsoever why Macedonia should change its name to something that doesn't include Macedonia in the name.
I already have mentioned that I have no objection to that, as a grant to them, provided it is accompanied by a clear indication for their background; like "Slavic Macedonia".

However, I don't agree with them claiming ancient Macedonian heritage or culture as they are clearly a different people who is not their direct descendant.
I think it's clear to everyone by now that this the case;
and it is for this reason that using the single name "Macedonia" as they have done by now, is really appropriating something that doesn't belong to them under any circumstances.
 

Shtajerc

Ad Honorem
Jul 2014
6,359
Lower Styria, Slovenia
Only according to definitions described in many later centuries by people who had nothing to do in connection with the original ancient Macedonia.
Things change over centuries and millenia. Macedonia is hardly the only example.

I couldn't talk to you about this, since I don't know much about the history or the cultures involved for these regions; but again neither Slovenia or Austria assumed any of the names for their respective countries from these regions, and therefore you cannot draw a parallel with the Macedonian issue.
To me it's almost the same. Take Kosovo then. That's more similar. Kosovo used to be the cradle of Serbian statehood and culture. Centuries later Albanians outbred the natives and now Kosovo is Albania 2.0. And it's not the name that is problematic with Kosovo (other things are). Noone wants them to call it Këpucët or whatever.

I already have mentioned that I have no objection to that, as a grant to them, provided it is accompanied by a clear indication for their background; like "Slavic Macedonia".
I misunderstood you on this one. Thought you meant whatever as long as it doesn't include the word "Macedonia". You meant something completely different, yes.

I think it's clear to everyone by now that this the case;
and it is for this reason that using the single name "Macedonia" as they have done by now, is really appropriating something that doesn't belong to them under any circumstances.
I don't know, I really can't see the name being problematic. Nowadays the name belongs to them just as well as to the Greeks. In 50 years, when they outbread them, it will belong to Albanians. Things change. Certainly it's not OK to portray history of others as your own though. I have nothing against them showing off any ancient finds or sites that were discovered on their ground, but they shouldn't say that they are the same people as ancient Macedonians.
 
Likes: bodhi
Nov 2014
930
USA
That is my point... people moved into Macedonia and want to keep the name Macedonia. You were of the opinion they should change the name of the country to reflect the people who are there now.
These people are not the only ones that reside in the new redefined modern Macedonia by some producers of maps, according to their own wishes to fit certain territorial designs for themselves.
Anybody can do that, as it has been done in this case, and even come later on and claim the history and culture for the place, with which they had no connection to begin with.
It is a clear falsification of facts and distortion of the truth.
The name Macedonia is a Greek name and it does not belong to them; if they extended the boundaries of what was supposed to be the originally known Macedonia, like Mettelus did for administrative purposes of the RE by including Thrace, Thessaly, Epirus and parts of Illyria, or Tito did for his own political designs....., well that's their problem and we don't have to go by them.
 
Nov 2014
930
USA
I don't know, I really can't see the name being problematic. Nowadays the name belongs to them just as well as to the Greeks.
As I said in the previous post #186:

"Only according to definitions described in many later centuries by people who had nothing to do in connection with the original ancient "Macedonia".

Really now, who has more saying about it? the Greeks who invented the name and knew what the original boundaries of Macedonia were, or the later comers who extended the boundaries of Macedonia to include themselves and assume additional claims on the process?

A case in point on what you mention above that the FYROMians have as much claim on the name for the extended new Macedonia as the Greeks, can also be applied to the Bulgarians and maybe to the Albanians even though their parts are a lot less.
 

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