Mansa Musa Ethnicity?

Aug 2018
368
london
#31
"He gave so much away for free both on his way to Mecca and back, then took out a loan while on his way back to Mali"

Do people take out loans out of the kindness of their heart in your imaginary universe?
 
Aug 2018
368
london
#32
"He had left his country with 100 loads of gold which he spent during the Pilgrimage on the tribes who lay along his route from his country to Egypt, while he was in Egypt, and again from Egypt to the Noble Hijaz and back."

So according to this account he spent all his portable wealth on the trip to Mecca.

"As a consequence he needed to borrow money in Egypt and pledged his credit with the merchants at a very high rate of gain so that they made 700 dinars profit on 300. Later he paid them back amply. He sent to me 500 mithqals of gold by way of honorarium."

So apparently he needed to borrow money at a high rate of interest to pay for his return journey. For every 300 dinar expenditure, he had to pay 1000 dinar.

Sounds like the kind of credit deal a poor man would get.
 

Ighayere

Ad Honorem
Jul 2012
2,563
Benin City, Nigeria
#33
"He gave so much away for free both on his way to Mecca and back, then took out a loan while on his way back to Mali"

Do people take out loans out of the kindness of their heart in your imaginary universe?
You misunderstood the post, yet you are adopting a sarcastic attitude even though you are the one deficient in understanding.

It is made clear in my post that I believe the claim in the wikipedia article about him trying to "rectify the gold market" to undo the damage he had inadvertently done to the region, is very doubtful/unlikely and that I have not seen anything to support that idea. I don't think he was taking out loans out of "kindness" to anyone on the return trip; I think he gave away all that he brought with him deliberately, then took out a loan (with exorbitant interest) to pay for provisions for the return trip to Mali, which he paid back once he got to Mali, in addition to sending gifts back to Egypt upon his return. This seems straightforward to me, and it makes little sense to argue that someone isn't rich, by pointing to how easily they could take out and repay a loan with an exorbitant interest rate.
 

Ighayere

Ad Honorem
Jul 2012
2,563
Benin City, Nigeria
#34
"He had left his country with 100 loads of gold which he spent during the Pilgrimage on the tribes who lay along his route from his country to Egypt, while he was in Egypt, and again from Egypt to the Noble Hijaz and back."

So according to this account he spent all his portable wealth on the trip to Mecca.

"As a consequence he needed to borrow money in Egypt and pledged his credit with the merchants at a very high rate of gain so that they made 700 dinars profit on 300. Later he paid them back amply. He sent to me 500 mithqals of gold by way of honorarium."

So apparently he needed to borrow money at a high rate of interest to pay for his return journey. For every 300 dinar expenditure, he had to pay 1000 dinar.

Sounds like the kind of credit deal a poor man would get.
I'm not sure I should humor you any longer. Maybe someone else will. Have fun though.
 

Ighayere

Ad Honorem
Jul 2012
2,563
Benin City, Nigeria
#36
Obviously you have no conception of what it means to be rich.
A confrontational tone towards me isn't going to make your argument any better.

I could keep addressing each new detail you that you use to struggle to build up a coherent argument, but like I said I don't see any point to arguing this further anymore, since I'm not dealing with someone with a genuine desire to discuss anything rationally. So look for someone else to indulge you, since doing so would be a waste of time for me.
 
Aug 2018
368
london
#37
"I'm not dealing with someone with a genuine desire to discuss anything rationally"

Hm noticeably this critique was not presented at the start of the thread when completely nonsensical and unsubstantiated claims about 'mansa musa' were first proffered.

As well as having absolutely no knowledge of the subject at hand, you can be dismissed as an obvious hypocrite.
 
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Ighayere

Ad Honorem
Jul 2012
2,563
Benin City, Nigeria
#38
"I'm not dealing with someone with a genuine desire to discuss anything rationally"

Hm noticeably this critique was not presented at the start of the thread when completely nonsensical and unsubstantiated claims about 'mansa musa' were first proffered.

As well as having absolutely no knowledge of the subject at hand, we can dismiss you as an obvious hypocrite.
The thread starter repeating some claim that he has seen on the internet (or in some popular history book) about "the richest man that ever lived" does not mean that the thread starter does not have a genuine desire to discuss the issue of what Mansa Musa's actual ethnic background was. I was more than willing to discuss that, without criticizing any other poster arguing that he was or wasn't really descended from Bilal as not wanting to discuss anything rationally. Similarly, I would be more than willing to discuss the issue of whether Musa was rich or not if the person I was discussing it with was actually interested in discussing it rationally. I just don't think that's the case for you given the way you've reacted to my earlier comments.

I don't have to address the "richest man that ever lived" claim every single time I see it on the internet because then it would become tiring to do so, so I'd already resolved not to bother with it (especially since it's already been discussed on this forum multiple times). And anyways, I think most people already know that there's no way to verify that sort of claim for anyone.
 
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Aug 2018
368
london
#39
ok so what do we have from the grandiose, richest ever Mali empire?

1.some buildings made from mud which need to be rebuilt on a regular basis after the rainy season.
2. the greatest supposed architectural accomplishment of west Africa was actually a pile of mud until the French colonialists decided to rebuild the Djenne Mosque in the early 20th century in an attempt to give West Africans some sense of historical identity.
3. where are all the treasures one would associate with a great wealthy empire? There are none.
 
Aug 2018
368
london
#40
According to the fables, Mansa Musa was a guy who spent a huge amount of money on his way to Mecca, then realised that he had overspent and had to go massively into debt to pay for his trip home. No doubt his serfs/slaves back in Mali were the ones who ultimately paid the price for his bling bling Mecca holiday.
 

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