Martial incompetence of Islam (vs. cultural power of Islam?)

Nov 2013
739
Texas
Thread way too generalistic.
Yeah, that about sums it up. I still think that Islam during the Islamic golden age of say, 757-1257, functioned more of a cultural power than a martial one; though that is far too general and that may take a few more years of research to back that premise insofar as that is valid...
 
Nov 2013
739
Texas
As I've said countless times, 'islam' did not function as a united power.
And I never contended that it did, you dull and pretentious twit.

I should probably have put this thread in middle eastern history; that way we could get more Asians to opine; and not incompetent but elitist academics that that the modern Anglophone world seems to be rife with.
 
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LatinoEuropa

Ad Honorem
Oct 2015
5,344
Matosinhos Portugal
Ah yes - what was his nickname again - Sempavor? - didn't he come to a rather sticky end after double (or triple)-dealing once too often between Leon, Portugal and the Almohads?? Lost his head in the wrong sort of way!?

Friend John on that date was Portucalense and not Portugal. Amigo John nessa data era Portucalense e não Portugal.
 

johnincornwall

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
8,008
Cornwall
PErhaps; but even/especially in the context of this discussion; there seems to be issues your downplay of Las Navas

A: The battle was a major, or at least notable battle in the downfall not only of Al-Andalus (as Cordoba would be taken in 1236; you may downplay that as a seperate even in though it arguably intertwines with the Almohad period, the earlier battles and so on), but in the downfall of Almohad dynasty altogeter

B: Pretending that Iberia, or even the Iberian frontier was somehow fringe territory in the least falls apart once you consider that it was the capital of Almohad dynasty

C: Feudal armies were small enough to losing to them is attributable to factors besides a decline in leadership. Multiple causes should be analysed regardless; and IMO one other cause was the high medieval Islam (especially in the case of Persia, Morrocco, and Al-Andalus) was more of a cultural power than a martial one; and that the Islamic golden had ended (Especially in Al-Andalus) with the fall of the Cordoba CAliphate in 1009
A . Las Navas led indirectly to the death of Al Nasr, which started the Almohad slide irretrievably. After Las Navas all the Christian Kingdoms were debilitated by plague, economy and succession problems. many knights sought employment in North Africa - facts

B. Utter nonsense, absolutely ridiculous - Iberia (Al Andalus to be correct in this case) was a Province of the Almohad empire, periodically visited by an army - before Las Navas the last one was a couple of years after the Alarcos campaign. Capital of the Almohads was Marrakesh for goodness sake, then Rabat was built

C. More rubbish. The absolute power and dictatorship of the Amiri period in Spain - with Almanzor's 56-odd raids into North (mostly) and a large well-equipped professional army of Slavs and North African berbers (as opposed to Spanish 8th century berbers). To consolidate his power he replaced the old regional army system to avoid any possible threatening power blocs, leaving each individual Taifa brutally exposed after the incompetence and death of his 'other son' Sanchuelo. By contrast, under the merciless onslaught of Almanzor and to a lesser extent his 2 Calpihal predecessors, the tiny Christian states had to be entirely militarised and feudal, living by the sword for pure self protection. This is what led them them into such a warlike and expansionist mode once the main threat was removed. In simple terms, just for yourself.



And I never contended that it did, you dull and pretentious twit.

I should probably have put this thread in middle eastern history; that way we could get more Asians to opine; and not incompetent but elitist academics that that the modern Anglophone world seems to be rife with.
Your debating power matches your reading - as you admitted in one thread you had read nothing about what you were spouting odd about, which is increasingly obvious. I am not an academic, but I read hundreds of books on Spanish history and it's North African relative. This is a forum for exchanging information but take absolutely zero notice of what anyone who has read a subject says!
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,613
Italy, Lago Maggiore
And I never contended that it did, you dull and pretentious twit.

I should probably have put this thread in middle eastern history; that way we could get more Asians to opine; and not incompetent but elitist academics that that the modern Anglophone world seems to be rife with.
Here no one is allowed to insult other members instead of discussing and debating their opinions and arguments.
We are going to consider your behavior, but stop immediately to use that language.