Maximum realistic territorial gains for the Russian Empire?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,916
SoCal
I'd Imagine Russian ambition would include the Balkans,
Outright annexation?

Germany up to the oder,
Very difficult to pull off without a Russian victory in a WWI-style war.

territory up to the Austrian border,
Which territories?

asia minor,
Anatolia; gotcha!

Persia, Afghanistan, Manchuria, Mongolia/inner Mongolia and Sinkiang (Xinjiang).
OK.

Also, what about Tibet?

In addition, which Russian cities/metropolitan areas in this scenario do you think had the potential to become population giants like Moscow and St. Petersburg did with a total population of five million or more people?
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,916
SoCal
BTW, here's a map of the USSR's cities by population in 1989 in real life:



Other than Moscow and St. Petersburg, no USSR city even reached three million people. Honestly, I don't think that suburbs would have added much to this calculation for the smaller cities. After all, even right now, Kiev (for instance) has slightly less than half a million people in its suburbs.

I want additional Russian cities/metropolitan areas with a total population of five or more million people by this point in time (2019) in this scenario.
 
Apr 2017
1,640
U.S.A.
Outright annexation?

Very difficult to pull off without a Russian victory in a WWI-style war.

Which territories?

Anatolia; gotcha!

OK.

Also, what about Tibet?

In addition, which Russian cities/metropolitan areas in this scenario do you think had the potential to become population giants like Moscow and St. Petersburg did with a total population of five million or more people?
If they could get away with it but by the 20th century its somewhat unlikely. More likely by making them client states, maybe a ways in the future have them join the Russian empire like how the german kingdoms joined the german empire.

Not necessarily, Frederick the Great was prepared to abandon East Prussia to Russia if needed. Or if Prussia was dismembered in the seven years war or the Napoleonic wars.

Potentially all the Slavic lands, Hungary and Transylvania.

Tibet is too mountainous and too far. It was already under British influence.

I can't really see any Russian city having such a large population in this scenario unless Russia moves its capital. The only potential ones would be Constantinople or a port city in Manchuria.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,916
SoCal
If they could get away with it but by the 20th century its somewhat unlikely. More likely by making them client states, maybe a ways in the future have them join the Russian empire like how the german kingdoms joined the german empire.
German kingdoms had a common language in common with Prussia, though. This doesn't apply here.

Not necessarily, Frederick the Great was prepared to abandon East Prussia to Russia if needed. Or if Prussia was dismembered in the seven years war or the Napoleonic wars.
Yes, but that involves a PoD very far back. I was looking and hoping for a more recent PoD.

Potentially all the Slavic lands, Hungary and Transylvania.
Czechia is going to form a huge salient unless Russia conquers Silesia as well, no?

Also, Romania is going to want Transylvania for itself--unless of course you're going to have Russia conquer all of Romania as well.

Tibet is too mountainous and too far. It was already under British influence.
OK.

I can't really see any Russian city having such a large population in this scenario unless Russia moves its capital. The only potential ones would be Constantinople or a port city in Manchuria.
What about Kiev or Tashkent even if Russia doesn't move its capital to either of these two cities? Also, what about Odessa?

BTW, I actually was including suburbs here. Interestingly enough, in 2015, the US appears to have had nine such metropolitan areas:

World City Populations Interactive Map 1950-2035

This figure is projected to increase to 10 by 2035 with the addition of the Phoenix metropolitan areas. US cities themselves might not have too much people, but they combined with their suburbs definitely do. :)
 
Apr 2017
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German kingdoms had a common language in common with Prussia, though. This doesn't apply here.

Yes, but that involves a PoD very far back. I was looking and hoping for a more recent PoD.

Czechia is going to form a huge salient unless Russia conquers Silesia as well, no?

Also, Romania is going to want Transylvania for itself--unless of course you're going to have Russia conquer all of Romania as well.

OK.

What about Kiev or Tashkent even if Russia doesn't move its capital to either of these two cities? Also, what about Odessa?

BTW, I actually was including suburbs here. Interestingly enough, in 2015, the US appears to have had nine such metropolitan areas:

World City Populations Interactive Map 1950-2035

This figure is projected to increase to 10 by 2035 with the addition of the Phoenix metropolitan areas. US cities themselves might not have too much people, but they combined with their suburbs definitely do. :)
Russia has a long history of imposing its language on conquered regions, and this is what pan-slavism is about.
In a war against Austria only, they would take everything they could get. Obviously they would take eastern Germany if they could.
Russia kept Bessarabia despite its Romanian majority.
If they didn't reach the 3 million mark in the normal timeline, I see no reason they would in this.
Calculating the population of suburbs in such a drastically different scenario is difficult, its either the same as it is now or too different to guess at.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,916
SoCal
Russia has a long history of imposing its language on conquered regions, and this is what pan-slavism is about.
It hasn't been very successful at imposing its language even on the Tatars, though.

In a war against Austria only, they would take everything they could get. Obviously they would take eastern Germany if they could.
Up to the Oder-Western Neisse line?

Russia kept Bessarabia despite its Romanian majority.
Yep, and I'm not quite sure why. Perhaps to provide more depth (in regards to defense) to Odessa?

If they didn't reach the 3 million mark in the normal timeline, I see no reason they would in this.
In real life, though, Russians and Ukrainians (and Belarusians) suffered a lot of demographic devastation as a result of Nazism and Bolshevism.

Calculating the population of suburbs in such a drastically different scenario is difficult, its either the same as it is now or too different to guess at.
Well, one could take a look at various countries' demographic losses over time.
 
Apr 2017
1,640
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It hasn't been very successful at imposing its language even on the Tatars, though.

Up to the Oder-Western Neisse line?

Yep, and I'm not quite sure why. Perhaps to provide more depth (in regards to defense) to Odessa?

In real life, though, Russians and Ukrainians (and Belarusians) suffered a lot of demographic devastation as a result of Nazism and Bolshevism.

Well, one could take a look at various countries' demographic losses over time.
Depends on your definition of successful. Currently more and more Tatars are beginning to identify as Russians.
Yeah, if they could.
Russia likes to take as much as they can. They took it in 1812, as part of their plans to take the Balkans.
By that logic then maybe Kiev but I doubt any others.
I doubt it would effect the percentage of people living in suburbs, it would be equivalent of the existing populations, just adjust for the increased population (if any).
 
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