Medieval Families with Roman Pedigrees

MAGolding

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,769
Chalfont, Pennsylvania
#31
I have a grandiose tree at Ancestry where I tried to go back from Charlemagne to Rome. The best I could do was a female Alypia Caratena of Rome, born about 435. She married Flavius Ricimere, Suevic King of Burgundy, 405 - 472. They are the maternal grandparents of (Saint) Clothilde de Burgundy, wife of Clovis the 1st. It's been a while since I did this, so the facts may have changed.
I just want to add new info online, that Alypia died in 467 in France.
I doubt if the facts have changed, though knowledge of them could have.

There is no known descent from the Merovingians, although there are plenty of alleged or speculated descents from them. Emperor Maximilian I favored a Habsburg pedigree a making them descended from the Merovingians in the male line. Empress Maria Theresa (1717-1780) was the last person descended from the Habsburgs in the male line.

But according to this site: BADEN Landolt or Lanzelin (d. 991) had children including Ratbod (d. before 1045) ancestor of the Habsburgs, and Lancelin (d. after 1027), ancestor of the present day House of Zahringen, the Margraves and Grand Dukes of Baden. There was and is a theory that the Habsburgs were descended in the male line from the Etichonid family, descended from Adalrich or Ethico, Duke of Alsace (d. after c. 683). It has also been speculated that the House of Lorraine was descended in the male line from Ethico, which if correct would make the present day House of Habsburg-Lorraine male lineage Etichonids. I believe the Ethichonid lineage can be found in Allstrom's Dictionary of Royal Lineage 1902, and in James Anderson Royal Genealogies 1732, 1740.

But of course Maximilian's pedigree back to the Merovingians is considered to be bogus and highly improbable.

On the subject of Adalrich or Ethico, he could have had Gallo-roman ancestors through his paternal grandmother Aquilina.
The duke Amalgar and his wife Aquilina, said to be the daughter of Waldelenus, dux in the region between the Alps and the Jura, and Flavia, feature in a reconstructed genealogy linking the Etichonids of Alsace with a Gallo-Roman ancestry through Flavia, were noted in Christian Settipani, "La transition entre mythe et réalité", Archivum 37 (1992:27-67); Settipani speculates on Flavia's connections with Felix Ennodius and Syagria.
Adalrich, Duke of Alsace - Wikipedia

The dukes of Aquitaine in the 8th century were also allegedly Merovingians according to some, and there was a line of nobles which claimed descent from them.

In my post number 19 above I mention one or two possible descents of Charlemagne from Merovingians. Medieval Families with Roman Pedigrees

St. Clothilde (c. 474-545) was the daughter of Chilperic II of Burgundy. Medieval lands says the name of Chilperic II's wife is not known: BURGUNDY KINGS And Wikipedia doesn't mention Chi;eric II's wife's name. Chilperic II of Burgundy - Wikipedia - Clotilde - Wikipedia.

Chilperic II's father King Gundioc died in 473. The name of his wife is not known for certain:

According to Gregory of Tours, Gundioc King of the Burgunds (whom he names as the father of the four sons who are named below) was "of the family of King Athanaric [of the Goths]"[6]. On the other hand, Gundobad King of Burgundy, in the Lex Gundobada, names "Gebicam, Godomarem, Gislaharium, Gundaharium, patrem quoque nostrum et patruum"[7], suggesting a direct line of Burgundian ancestors. Sécretan suggests that the two reports can be reconciled if Gundioc married the sister of Ricimer[8].
The name of King Gundioc´s wife is not known. As noted above, Sécretan suggests that she may have been the sister of Ricimer[12]. The name of King Gundioc´s third son Chilperich suggests that his mother may have been related to the Merovingian Franks.
BURGUNDY KINGS

[8] Sécretan ‘Le premier royaume de Bourgogne’ (1868), p. 51.
After the death of Aetius in 454, Gondioc married the sister of Ricimer,[1] the Gothic general at the time ruling the Western Roman Empire.
Prosopography of the Later Roman Empire, Vol. 2, p. 523. ISBN 0-521-20159-4
Ricimer was the son of Rechila, the Suevic King of Galicia. His mother was the daughter of Wallia, King of the Visigoths. It has been surmised that such an alliance between the Suevi and the Visigoths would have been made before Wallia's death in 418, after which Wallia's successors may have become hostile toward the family members of the deceased king. As entry into the Western Empire's military was a frequently-used option for "losers of struggles for leadership among the barbarians",[3] Ricimer's family would have thus entered the service of Rome.[4] Ricimer's younger sister later married Gondioc, the King of the Burgundians.
Therefore St. Clothilde doesn't t seem to have any known Gallo-Roman ancestors.

Therefore your claim to Gallo-Roman ancestors should me made through your no doubt numerous descents from Charlemagne. See my post number 19 above.Medieval Families with Roman Pedigrees
 

authun

Ad Honorem
Aug 2011
5,118
#32
Well it is also likely that were will be a massive overlap in ancestors going back that far. ... It isn't unlikely that many of our ancestors were siblings
That is what 'ancestors in common' means. Marriage between siblings is taboo in most societies, first cousins is usually the closest relationship allowed.
 
Apr 2010
1,015
evergreen state, USA
#33
If the Lorraine branch is connected to the Merovingians, then so am I, heh heh. I have a line connecting me to Marie Antoinette via the Lorraine branch. And if really true, so do a lot of others today. I'd have to look up my tree at Ancestry to see which line connects me, but it goes through England.
 

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