Monuments you hold the dearest

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
32,474
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#71
If that is true of Speer, that is wonderfully ironic in the circumstances. I find that there is something disquieting about places that have been reconstructed after being largely destroyed in war, Ypres, with its formerly amazing cloth hall, is positively spooky. One is constantly aware that one is in a sort of simulation and the architecture feels somehow dead.
Found it - it was indeed Speer.

Ruin value - Wikipedia
 
Oct 2013
13,767
Europix
#73
If that is true of Speer, that is wonderfully ironic in the circumstances. I find that there is something disquieting about places that have been reconstructed after being largely destroyed in war, Ypres, with its formerly amazing cloth hall, is positively spooky. One is constantly aware that one is in a sort of simulation and the architecture feels somehow dead.
It really depends on how You look at it.

Rebuilding is not about putting back the bricks were they were before. It's about rising back. About not kneeling. About not accepting savagery. Continuing being Yourself.

 
Likes: MG1962a
Apr 2018
793
Upland, Sweden
#74
Yes, very 19th century :D. You should remedy that, plan a visit to Epidauros and its ancient theatre. The acoustics, you wouldn't believe and might find yourself searching for the hidden amplifiers. Mind you, it is a theatre coming alive in summer months, with annual performances of ancient plays. Add the number of tourists visiting, and perhaps it might suit you better to avoid a summer visit altogether. Unless, of course, you want to attend such a theatrical performance, which is well worth it, considering the setting and the quality of the plays performed.
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PS: Funny you should mention the Opera of Paris, it was the first sight that greeted me when I got down from our transport from the airport. And Paris was my first trip abroad, many years ago. As you can understand, I was dumbfounded, never having seen such grandeur before. From then onward, many trips followed, many magnificent buildings gazed upon, but still, this first impression I will always remember.
That sounds awesome. Do they do the plays in the ancient Greek as well, or modern Greek? Me and my girlfriend are actually planning to go to Greece this summer, so I'll check it out (it's a bit of a tug of war, she's into Santorini - I find that cliché and a tourist trap from what I've understood, and would like to go somewhere with more ruins... maybe we'll end up with a nice compromise!). I should definitely remedy that... if nothing else maybe I will go to Epidauros by myself in the fall. The only thing I dislike about Southern Europe in the summer is that it's a bit too hot for my far too pale physique, I don't deal with the sun very well...

P.S. That sounds like a lovely first sight. The entire quarter around the Opera is just majestic. The very word glorious is cliché - but I think it is actually apt here. It was one of the first classic places in Europe I went to as well, so I can relate. Yes, it is really grand, and grand without being tacky. Everything fits together and looks really nice - somehow the French can actually pull of the gold without it being too much, which is impressive the way I see it (as someone more used to and liking the more minimalist and less overtly flashy Scandinavian form of classical architecture...).
 
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Apr 2018
793
Upland, Sweden
#75
I agree with so much of that, and places lose their character when they become tourist places rather than living towns or cities; that is why I love Ghent, for instance, so much, because it hasn't suffered that fate to the extent that it deserves (if one may put it like that). I don't in fact know Notre Dame at all well because I have avoided it as tourist trap, preferring to wander around parts of Paris that retained more of their own life.
Yes, I agree entirely. Pity really, but it is what it is.

There seems to be an opposing trend growing though - I see signs of "no smartphones" in Museums I've been going to lately, which is something anyway.

I like the Low countries. Never been to Belgium, but I loved the way Holland looked and felt when I was there. I felt at home somehow. I should go to Ghent then!
 
Feb 2019
303
Serbia
#76
For me, at least from the ones that I have visited it has to be Oplenac, also known as the Church of St. George.

It was built after WWI to celebrate victory and to serve as a crypt for the Karađorđević dynasty.

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Exterior, entrance.


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Interior, main hall. Note the tombs between the pillars on the sides. The chandelier at the top is in the shape of a crown, said to have been made out of molten Austro-Hungarian artillery shells.

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The crypt, main hall. Housing a colossal, beautiful mosaic, said to be one of the largest in the world.

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Crypt, different angle.
 

Solidaire

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,423
Athens, Greece
#77
You've never seen the monument, its ruins.

This whole thing seems overly emotional to me. People cry over an old building being partially destroyed. Same people proud of a totally destroyed building.

I'm going to be sentimental too. I don't see a burnt out cathedral in Paris, I see the very symbol of toxic Church behavior, of God smiting symbols of the wicked for not policing their own, specifcally child molesting priests.

Do I feel better with the emotional outburst? No. Because as I write this, an active priest who already got caught once diddling kids and who was moved to another parish is now diddling another kid. So what am I left with? Nothing, an old building burnt down, partially.
Of course I've seen the monument, in its present state. And love it for what it is. It's not another monument, it's the same, aged and damaged. If it was rebuild from scratch, then yes, it would have been another monument. But it hasn't, it is maintained with as much little intervention as possible, using as much of the original material as possible. There is a full-scale replica of Parthenon in Nashville, Tennessee; that would have been easier to build, restoration and maintenance with respect to authenticity requires much more work, and it is also very much costlier. And by the way, the Parthenon is not totally destroyed ruins, it is a damaged ancient building. There are temples in far worse condition, even with the bombing of the Parthenon and all. Which is a further confirmation of the building's resilience.

Emotionalism is a personal issue, people respond different to different stimuli. To paraphrase "live and let live", why don't you feel and let feel? I don't understand why it bothers you so much that people love monuments. If it resulted in something bad that might harm people, I'd get it. Now I don't. You may choose whatever you like to see in monuments, and dislike this or that one for some reason, but in the same way, others see and feel differently.

Anyway, I've really enjoyed our exchange thus far, it made me reflect on why I do care about monuments. I think it has run its course though, this discussion of ours, as I feel we have both said what is to be said. Unless you have something else to add, I believe we must end it here.
 

Sindane

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
4,671
Europe
#78
.. which monuments would you feel the greatest sorrow seeing them damaged or destroyed? Which you hold dearest? This isn't about which are considered the most important, in an academic sense, but which are closest to your heart, therefore a subjective and personal view...
The Cenothaph in Whitehall, London
The Menin Gate and Thiepval
Ladyhill Park, Allerton WW1 memorial
ILP mural, Bradford
Richard Oastler statue
Haydock Wood Pit and Gresford colliery disasters
Huskar pit disaster
Any Luddilte or Chartist related monument
Any monument related to allied WW2 losses, the trans Atlantic slave trade or the Holocaust

More general for the meaning of the word
The Houses of Parliament
Cathedrals
Stonehenge
Knossos
 
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Solidaire

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,423
Athens, Greece
#80
That sounds awesome. Do they do the plays in the ancient Greek as well, or modern Greek? Me and my girlfriend are actually planning to go to Greece this summer, so I'll check it out (it's a bit of a tug of war, she's into Santorini - I find that cliché and a tourist trap from what I've understood, and would like to go somewhere with more ruins... maybe we'll end up with a nice compromise!). I should definitely remedy that... if nothing else maybe I will go to Epidauros by myself in the fall. The only thing I dislike about Southern Europe in the summer is that it's a bit too hot for my far too pale physique, I don't deal with the sun very well...
Santorini is just breathtaking, a unique place, but I would definitely avoid it during summer. It suffers from the same disease that Venice does, way too many tourists. Any other season is fine, Easter being probably the best overall. If you do have to go during summertime, and if it's any consolation, there is an extensive excavation site at Akrotiri, you might find it interesting to visit. Here, have a look. Also, you might want to hop on a ferry and visit nearby Anafi, a quiet getaway in comparison. You might get some privacy and peace of mind there. Several smaller and less known Greek islands are like that, or at least used to be. Folegandros is another, lovely one, though I'm not sure about its current popularity. Do check beforehand, because Greece has seen a massive increase in tourism in recent years.

I have the same issue with the excessive summer sun and the heat, don't like it one bit. Just do what the locals do, avoid exposure during high noon, stay inside or take a nap. Greek summers are usually dry, so It cools down in the afternoon, the only exception being the cement thermal traps that our big cities are. If I could, late September is when I'd choose to visit here. The sea is still warm, while temperatures have cooled down a bit but are still pleasant, and the crowds have thinned down. Or alternatively, Easter during springtime, because of the added value of local Easter customs. Though you do get to miss the sea, it's still too cold for bathing this time of the year.

The plays at Epidauros are mostly in Greek (modern), with English surtitles. Here is this year's program:
PROGRAMME

Another exceptional venue one might attend is at the Odeon of Herodes Atticus, a Roman theatre built at the foot of the Acropolis. Mainly music performances, operas and ballets are staged there, and over the years several very renowned artists have performed, including Maria Callas, Luciano Pavarotti, Frank Sinatra, and many, many others.

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This year, I plan to manage and get a hold on two tickets for the 50 years of Jethro Tull. Not very related to antiquity, I know, but it is related to the history of Rock nonetheless. Plus, I'm a big fan! :D
PROGRAMME
 
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